Regarding your #3, aren't you yet dead to the law (Romans 7:4)?
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Assurance of Salvation
- Thread starter George Antonios
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Regarding your #3, aren't you yet dead to the law (Romans 7:4)?
First judge your gross sinful behaviors according to Mathew 5:48 which make you unfit to stand before God, before you crave to judge others!!!
Don't pretend to be perfectly cleaned by your sin confessions!!!
Bring the council of the scriptures to your situation of blatant violation of Mathew 5:48. Don't be a hypocrite adopting double standards one for you and one for others!!
The question was:
Is the Church required to exercise discipline to its members who blatantly violate Mathew 5:48 & pretend to be in fellowship with God?
Your hypocrisy is bad theology not the question.
Avoid giving stupid answers!!
Particular
Well-Known Member
A person should not take one sentence from a sermon and create a doctrine. Context is important. When looking at the whole we can see what Jesus means in verse 48. Taking one sentence results in false teaching.
Matthew 5:1-42 Seeing the crowds, he went up on the mountain, and when he sat down, his disciples came to him. And he opened his mouth and taught them, saying: “Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. “Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted. “Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth. “Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied. “Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy. “Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God. “Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sonsof God. “Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. “Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you. “You are the salt of the earth, but if salt has lost its taste, how shall its saltiness be restored? It is no longer good for anything except to be thrown out and trampled under people’s feet. “You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden. Nor do people light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a stand, and it gives light to all in the house. In the same way, let your light shine before others, so thatthey may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven. “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder; and whoever murders will be liable to judgment.’ But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brotherwill be liable to judgment; whoever insultshis brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hellof fire. So if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you, leave your gift there before the altar and go. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift. Come to terms quickly with your accuser while you are going with him to court, lest your accuser hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the guard, and you be put in prison. Truly, I say to you, you will never get out until you have paid the last penny. “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body go into hell. “It was also said, ‘Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.’ But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except on the ground of sexual immorality, makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery. “Again you have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform to the Lord what you have sworn.’ But I say to you, Do not take an oath at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne of God, or by the earth, for it is his footstool, or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. And do not take an oath by your head, for you cannot make one hair white or black. Let what you say be simply ‘Yes’ or ‘No’; anything more than this comes from evil. “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if anyone would sue you and take your tunic,let him have your cloak as well. And if anyone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who begs from you, and do not refuse the one who would borrow from you.
Matthew 5:43-48 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? And if you greet only your brothers,what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
Matthew 6:1-15 “Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven. “Thus, when you give to the needy, sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be praised by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you. “And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you. “And when you pray, do not heap up empty phrases as the Gentiles do, for they think that they will be heard for their many words. Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him. Pray then like this: “Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name. Your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread, and forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you, but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
Matthew 5:1-42 Seeing the crowds, he went up on the mountain, and when he sat down, his disciples came to him. And he opened his mouth and taught them, saying: “Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. “Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted. “Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth. “Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied. “Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy. “Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God. “Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sonsof God. “Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. “Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you. “You are the salt of the earth, but if salt has lost its taste, how shall its saltiness be restored? It is no longer good for anything except to be thrown out and trampled under people’s feet. “You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden. Nor do people light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a stand, and it gives light to all in the house. In the same way, let your light shine before others, so thatthey may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven. “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder; and whoever murders will be liable to judgment.’ But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brotherwill be liable to judgment; whoever insultshis brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hellof fire. So if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you, leave your gift there before the altar and go. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift. Come to terms quickly with your accuser while you are going with him to court, lest your accuser hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the guard, and you be put in prison. Truly, I say to you, you will never get out until you have paid the last penny. “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body go into hell. “It was also said, ‘Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.’ But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except on the ground of sexual immorality, makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery. “Again you have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform to the Lord what you have sworn.’ But I say to you, Do not take an oath at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne of God, or by the earth, for it is his footstool, or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. And do not take an oath by your head, for you cannot make one hair white or black. Let what you say be simply ‘Yes’ or ‘No’; anything more than this comes from evil. “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if anyone would sue you and take your tunic,let him have your cloak as well. And if anyone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who begs from you, and do not refuse the one who would borrow from you.
Matthew 5:43-48 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? And if you greet only your brothers,what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
Matthew 6:1-15 “Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven. “Thus, when you give to the needy, sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be praised by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you. “And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you. “And when you pray, do not heap up empty phrases as the Gentiles do, for they think that they will be heard for their many words. Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him. Pray then like this: “Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name. Your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread, and forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you, but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
Read the question before posting your stupid replies. The question was:
Do confessions of sins make a person sinless that he no longer needs the grace given through Christ's atonement to have fellowship with God?
Why do you pretend to obey the conviction of the Holy Spirit but have blatantly not yet confessed, repented & forsaken your sins according to Mathew 5:48 & which the Holy Spirit has convicted you of?
If your sins have been fully forgiven by God the Father, why do you yet say you are not sinless in your works?
Would you agree with me also that you need to stop sinning blatantly as commanded explicitly in Mathew 5:48?
You pharisaical works-truster, isn't it totally wrong for your local church to excuse and turn a blind eye towards your blatant refusal to stop sinning according to God's command in Mathew 5:48?
LOL, you and yeshua1 are digging a deep hole for yourself because you trust in your works and justify judging others while I trust only in Christ's atonement to have fellowship with the Father!
Is your church right to not have you placed under a spiritual "probationary period" for blatantly refusing to stop sinning according to Mathew 5:48??
Is your blatant refusal to stop sinning according to Mathew 5:48 godliness, and not fornication before God?
What's your great point? You haven't stopped sinning but yet consider yourself "not sinless" but expect others to stop sinning! When will you stop your filthy hypocrisy?
1 Peter 1:5 among others.
Hebrews 12:14.
Repentance is a salvation "essential".
Confessing our sins is yet another evidence that our hearts have been changed, that we as believers acknowledge our sins before God ( see Psalms 51 ) and agree with Him that they are, indeed, sins.
All professing Christians have the potential of ending up in unrepentant sin.
The warnings are real, and yet God's love and keeping of His children is real, as well.
Jesus Christ will lose none of His sheep.
But the very real fact is, that Satan has sown "tares" ( false believers ) among the "wheat" of Christ's field ( Matthew 13:36-43 ).
According to the parable of the sower and many other passages, there are indeed people who think that they have believed on Christ, when in reality, they don't "pass muster" and are not truly born of God.
They are works -oriented "Christians" and will only ever see Christ as the means to an end.
He is not their life, nor will they ever really and truly love Him for Who He is...
Their Lord, their Master, and their loving Saviour.
They never will truly come to believe and understand His words, and they never will, despite calling Him "Lord", ever truly do good works pleasing to God ( Matthew 7:21-23 ).
Only those who are born again and sanctified by the blood of His Son, can ever be credited with anything good.
Only those with the gift of God-given faith will ever persevere.
My best advice to those who are in doubt about their salvation?
Continue in the faith, and seek the Lord through His word.
Don't abandon Him when the going gets tough.
Those that do only prove that they were never in it "for the long haul", and they were never really His to begin with.
In Scripture there is man's perspective, and God's perspective.
There are the "whosoever believeths", and God's elect.
Two sides of the same coin.
Confessing sins is evidence of a heart which has stopped trusting in the heresy one can stop sinning in order to have fellowship with God and repented by starting to trust only in Christ's atonement in order to have fellowship with God.
The heresy one needs to stop sinning in order to have fellowship with God is promoted by the Lordship salvationists!
The purpose of biblical warnings is for the Lordship Salvationists to repent from their heresy.
The Lordship Salvationists certainly won't pass muster. Their trust is in the moral law not His grace, though they advertise themselves as grace teachers!
So you have identified the context? What is the context? Does the context teach you to stop sinning in order to have fellowship with God or trust in Christ's atonement in order to have fellowship with God?
Judaizers trusted in their works in order to have fellowship with God. Lordship Salvationists trust in their stopping from sinning in order have fellowship with God! Both deny grace!
Dave G
Well-Known Member
I agree.
I view "Lordship Salvation" as error, and men such as John MacArthur to be in error when he teaches such things.
Again, I agree.
Particular
Well-Known Member
LOL, we trust in the Sovereign Grace of our King, Jesus Christ, who has chosen to redeem us out of death and place us into life through His atoning sacrifice.
The issue is not that you and I aren't redeemed and atoned for. The issue is that you teach that faith comes from your human will power and that by your man-generated faith, you can heal yourself and become financially prosperous. You teach your human ability to manipulate God and make him give you your heart's desire by your human-generated faith.
You have displayed human works as the means by which you push God around to get what you want.
What you need is to trust in Christ not His Grace because with out trusting in Christ there is no grace.
Lordship Salvation is all about works to keep your Salvation. Salvation is free you do not have to work to keep it. What you believe is not found in scripture.
MB
My understanding of 'Lordship salvation' is that Jesus is my Lord and Saviour. If I will not have Him for my Lord, why should I suppose that I can have Him for my Saviour? Salvation is indeed free, but it's not cheap.
If a child is born who bears no resemblance whatsoever to its father, eyebrows tend to be raised and urgent questions asked. What then should we think of someone who claims to be born of a Holy God, but in whom there is no sign of holiness to be observed?
Here is John Owen speaking on Hebrews 6:4-6.
'Let it be said that while Scripture speaks plainly and positively of the perseverance of the saints, yet it is a perseverance of saints, not unregenerate professors. Divine preservation is not only in a safe state, but also in a holy course of disposition and conduct. We are 'kept by the power of God through faith.' We are kept by the Spirit working in us a spirit of entire dependency, renouncing our own wisdom and strength. The only place where we cannot fall is one down in the dust. It is there the Lord brings His own people, weaning them from all confidence in the flesh, and giving them to experience that it is when they are weak that they are strong. Such, and such only, are saved and safe forever.'
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