Atheists and Liberals better than evangelicals

[convicted1]

Guys, y'all are being way too harsh on Brother Rick. He has made many salient ponts. Look, the church isn't a place where people come to socialize for ~2.5 hours a week and doing nothing the rest of the week. We are commanded to go and preach the gospel to every crreature, to make disciples out of people, to proclaim the whole gospel of Jesus Christ, &c. One can not do this sitting on their keyster. We are to teach the new converts the scriptures, with proper exegesis. We are to go and visit the homeless, feed the poor, lift up the downtrodden.

I am guilty of not doing enough of this, myself :tear:. He is calling for us to have a deeper understanding of God through what He reveals of Himself via the bible. He's calling for all of us to have a deeper education. We can do this through study, by reading other's works, by attending seminary, &c. I am not against seminary, but I don't want to place it upon a pedestal, eiither. But he has made many wonderful points that shouldn't go unnoticed.

 

[Revmitchell]

Guys, y'all are being way too harsh on Brother Rick.

That.......that is just rich.

 

[convicted1]

That.......that is just rich.

Brother, that's nothing to ROFL about. I'm being dead serious here. I know he's been harsh with me on more than one occasion, but I have to admit it did cause me to study my theology out. But to post this is just uncalled for.

 

[Revmitchell]

Brother, that's nothing to ROFL about. I'm being dead serious here. I know he's been harsh with me on more than one occasion, but I have to admit it did cause me to study my theology out. But to post this is just uncalled for.

Yes of course it is. I am quite sure your defense of him has nothing to do with him be a follow cal.

 

[convicted1]

Yes of course it is. I am quite sure your defense of him has nothing to do with him be a follow cal.

Rolleyes all you want to. This does nothing to support your ROFL comment. Look, Jesus said if someone slaps your cheek, sluggem back, right? Wrong. You offer them the other chhek. If someone sues you and takes your coat, give them your cloak also. If a Brother trespasses/offends you, go to him and him alone, and talk to him about it. It's all about being humble whenever you feel your Brother has slighted you in any way. It's not to bash him back.


If Brother Rick has caused you to study more about whatever he's debating with you about, then he's done his job. If you haven't, then you have done yours.

If he's offended him, go to him via PM. But to joust with him in the open does neither of you any favors.

 

[Revmitchell]

Rolleyes all you want to. This does nothing to support your ROFL comment. Look, Jesus said if someone slaps your cheek, sluggem back, right? Wrong. You offer them the other chhek. If someone sues you and takes your coat, give them your cloak also. If a Brother trespasses/offends you, go to him and him alone, and talk to him about it. It's all about being humble whenever you feel your Brother has slighted you in any way. It's not to bash him back.


If Brother Rick has caused you to study more about whatever he's debating with you about, then he's done his job. If you haven't, then you have done yours.

If he's offended him, go to him via PM. But to joust with him in the open does neither of you any favors.

First I do not care how much he or anyone gets right. When they talk to people like that all the rest becomes irrelevant.

Second, I have not "jousted" with him.

Third, you prove my point about calvinist pac mentality right here right now. You want to scold everyone else for being too "harsh" on him but intentionally ignore his comments no matter how harsh they are. Your hypocrisy is showing. So is your pac mentality. If you are going to go to all the effort to call one out then call everyone out. Of course not everyone is a cal. Huh?


Anyway you will just have to live with your inconsistency. I will leave you to it.

 

[convicted1]

First I do not care how much he or anyone gets right. When they talk to people like that all the rest becomes irrelevant.

Second, I have not "jousted" with him.

Third, you prove my point about calvinist pac mentality right here right now. You want to scold everyone else for being too "harsh" on him but intentionally ignore his comments no matter how harsh they are. Your hypocrisy is showing. So is your pac mentality.

Whoa Brother! Pump your brakes! I told you in an earlier post he has debated be probably as rough, or not rougher than, anyone on here. He stated somethings that were spot on, imo. I am finished here. I meant nothing ill, just trying to defuse the thread. Oh well.

 

[Rippon]

Whoa Brother! Pump your brakes! I told you in an earlier post he has debated probably as rough, or not rougher than, anyone on here. He stated somethings that were spot on, imo. I am finished here. I meant nothing ill, just trying to defuse the thread. Oh well.

I'm with you here Willis.

 

[quantumfaith]

I SO agree with your brother on the calculator issue. Even in my lifetime in education, 28 years, calculators have been put in to use way too much, particularly in the earliest years of mathematics discussion.

Calculators, particularly advanced logic and graphing calculators have great value, but only after one has mastered fundamental and essential skills, in order that calculators become tools for use rather than substitutes for arithmetic and even algebraic computations.

 

[OldRegular]

I know Luke doesn't like "Old folks who think they love old things" but I will take advantage of my age to make a statement or two.

I have observed, based partly on my own experience, that young Christians reach a certain state where they become extremely self righteous. A dear brother in the Faith once told me: "When I was a young Christian I thought I could identify every person in the congregation who was saved or lost. Now I sometimes have doubts about myself!"

Those dear brothers and sisters who have never had the pleasure of seeing children or grandchildren navigate the teen years, and sometimes beyond, are in for some learning experiences and will probably have cause to, well enough said.

 

[OldRegular]

Rolleyes all you want to. This does nothing to support your ROFL comment. Look, Jesus said if someone slaps your cheek, sluggem back, right? Wrong. You offer them the other chhek. If someone sues you and takes your coat, give them your cloak also. If a Brother trespasses/offends you, go to him and him alone, and talk to him about it. It's all about being humble whenever you feel your Brother has slighted you in any way. It's not to bash him back.


If Brother Rick has caused you to study more about whatever he's debating with you about, then he's done his job. If you haven't, then you have done yours.

If he's offended him, go to him via PM. But to joust with him in the open does neither of you any favors.

Brother Willis I think you are wrong. I made the following comment in a post to QF [post #60]. I believe it is appropriate here.

Even forums such as this one are problematic. We would never speak 'face to face' with each other as we do on this forum. Instead of discussing, communicating, we are shouting, often insulting each other, even if it is in "lower case" text!

The tenor of the OP by Luke is harsh, unfairly judgmental, and serves no useful purpose other than to provoke a similar discussion. There was an old country song, I believe Roy Acuff sang it; something about "Sweep around your own front door"!

 

[John of Japan]

If he's offended him, go to him via PM. But to joust with him in the open does neither of you any favors.

Friend, you know what you get from him if you apologize in a PM? A lecture. Absolutely no gracious acceptance at all. That's what happened the last time I apologized to him (and believe me, it is the last time), and why I have him on ignore and will keep him there.

Just sayin'. :tonofbricks:

 

[Revmitchell]

Friend, you know what you get from him if you apologize in a PM? A lecture. Absolutely no gracious acceptance at all. That's what happened the last time I apologized to him (and believe me, it is the last time), and why I have him on ignore and will keep him there.

Just sayin'. :tonofbricks:

WE know that but it doesn't matter to him. Luke is a cal and that is all that matters. Everyone who opposes a cal must be destroyed.

 

[Luke2427]

I know Luke doesn't like "Old folks who think they love old things" but I will take advantage of my age to make a statement or two.

I have observed, based partly on my own experience, that young Christians reach a certain state where they become extremely self righteous. A dear brother in the Faith once told me: "When I was a young Christian I thought I could identify every person in the congregation who was saved or lost. Now I sometimes have doubts about myself!"

Those dear brothers and sisters who have never had the pleasure of seeing children or grandchildren navigate the teen years, and sometimes beyond, are in for some learning experiences and will probably have cause to, well enough said.

I'm not a young Christian. I've been preaching for 19 years. I have been in full time ministry for 14 years.

And you seem to be purposefully misrepresenting the "old folks who think they love old things" thread of mine. I don't know if you are devious and being purposefully misleading or what.

The point of that thread had nothing to do with me not liking old people. To this day I think the greatest generation in American history is the WWII generation.

The point of that thread was to show that there are a lot of older folks sitting in churches being an obstacle to progress because they think they are standing for the "old paths". An example I used was how I have personally known old folks say that they believe in singing the "old hymns of the faith." Ask them what hymns and half or better of the hymns they list will be written since 1930!!!

THATS CONTEMPORARY MUSIC!

They think they are standing for old stuff when all they are really doing is fighting for the same stuff young folks today are fighting- music that came out when they were young!

It is utter hypocrisy!!!

The "old hymns of the faith" are older than anybody living today. But these okd folks rarely want to sing "A Mighty Fortress" or "Be Thou My Vision" or other hymns that are several hundred to a thousand years old. No. They are no more for truly old stuff than the Christian contemporary punk rocker in their church!

And obviously this is not ALL old folks.

So "old regular" be honorable and put my quotes in context.

It is very slimy for you to do otherwise.

 

[OldRegular]

I honestly believe the death of conservative Christianity in America may be the best thing for real Christianity in America. And I am conservative. I believe the Bible is the infallible, inerrant Word of God but the sad thing is that most other people who claim to believe the same thing have a faith that cripples the rest of us from making inroads.

A little Scripture lesson for Luke! {Note: The above emphasis in the quote from the OP is mine!}

1 Kings 19:1-3; 9, 10; 11-18
1. And Ahab told Jezebel all that Elijah had done, and withal how he had slain all the prophets with the sword.
2. Then Jezebel sent a messenger unto Elijah, saying, So let the gods do to me, and more also, if I make not thy life as the life of one of them by to morrow about this time.
3. And when he saw that, he arose, and went for his life, and came to Beersheba, which belongeth to Judah, and left his servant there.

9. And he came thither unto a cave, and lodged there; and, behold, the word of the LORD came to him, and he said unto him, What doest thou here, Elijah?
10. And he said, I have been very jealous for the LORD God of hosts: for the children of Israel have forsaken thy covenant, thrown down thine altars, and slain thy prophets with the sword; and I, even I only, am left; and they seek my life, to take it away.

13. And it was so, when Elijah heard it, that he wrapped his face in his mantle, and went out, and stood in the entering in of the cave. And, behold, there came a voice unto him, and said, What doest thou here, Elijah?
14. And he said, I have been very jealous for the LORD God of hosts: because the children of Israel have forsaken thy covenant, thrown down thine altars, and slain thy prophets with the sword; and I, even I only, am left; and they seek my life, to take it away.
15. And the LORD said unto him, Go, return on thy way to the wilderness of Damascus: and when thou comest, anoint Hazael to be king over Syria:
16. And Jehu the son of Nimshi shalt thou anoint to be king over Israel: and Elisha the son of Shaphat of Abelmeholah shalt thou anoint to be prophet in thy room.
17. And it shall come to pass, that him that escapeth the sword of Hazael shall Jehu slay: and him that escapeth from the sword of Jehu shall Elisha slay.
18. Yet I have left me seven thousand in Israel, all the knees which have not bowed unto Baal, and every mouth which hath not kissed him.

 

[OldRegular]

I'm not a young Christian. I've been preaching for 19 years. I have been in full time ministry for 14 years.

And you seem to be purposefully misrepresenting the "old folks who think they love old things" thread of mine. I don't know if you are devious and being purposefully misleading or what.

The point of that thread had nothing to do with me not liking old people. To this day I think the greatest generation in American history is the WWII generation.

The point of that thread was to show that there are a lot of older folks sitting in churches being an obstacle to progress because they think they are standing for the "old paths". An example I used was how I have personally known old folks say that they believe in singing the "old hymns of the faith." Ask them what hymns and half or better of the hymns they list will be written since 1930!!!

THATS CONTEMPORARY MUSIC!

They think they are standing for old stuff when all they are really doing is fighting for the same stuff young folks today are fighting- music that came out when they were young!

It is utter hypocrisy!!!

The "old hymns of the faith" are older than anybody living today. But these okd folks rarely want to sing "A Mighty Fortress" or "Be Thou My Vision" or other hymns that are several hundred to a thousand years old. No. They are no more for truly old stuff than the Christian contemporary punk rocker in their church!

And obviously this is not ALL old folks.

So "old regular" be honorable and put my quotes in context.

It is very slimy for you to do otherwise.

Another Scripture lesson for Lukie. I use "Lukie" to avoid confusion with the recorder of the following Scripture! {Note: I have taken the liberty of highlighting Lukie's more generous remarks in the above quote!}

Luke 18:9-14
9. And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
10. Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
11. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
13. And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14. I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

 

[Luke2427]

Guys, y'all are being way too harsh on Brother Rick. He has made many salient ponts. Look, the church isn't a place where people come to socialize for ~2.5 hours a week and doing nothing the rest of the week. We are commanded to go and preach the gospel to every crreature, to make disciples out of people, to proclaim the whole gospel of Jesus Christ, &c. One can not do this sitting on their keyster. We are to teach the new converts the scriptures, with proper exegesis. We are to go and visit the homeless, feed the poor, lift up the downtrodden.

I am guilty of not doing enough of this, myself :tear:. He is calling for us to have a deeper understanding of God through what He reveals of Himself via the bible. He's calling for all of us to have a deeper education. We can do this through study, by reading other's works, by attending seminary, &c. I am not against seminary, but I don't want to place it upon a pedestal, eiither. But he has made many wonderful points that shouldn't go unnoticed.

I appreciate this , Willis.

I don't make it easy for people to defend me.

Truth be told, I am very passionate and do get too defensive sometimes. That is a shame because, as I think you are pointing out, the premise of what I am purporting is absolutely correct and needful.

It seems so obvious to me that I get frustrated when people don't see it.

It seems so BLATANTLY obvious that Christians in general OUGHT TO be getting fewer divorces per capita than godless people.

It seems so obvious that it is not good that those who claim to believe the Word of God most faithfully (fundamentalists and evangelicals) bring a reproach on it when they are some of the most uneducated (and we're not only talking about ADVANCED degrees- we're talking about HIGH SCHOOL DIPLOMAS!!!!) people in America.

It seems so obvious to me that when I point out this terrible flaw, what I hope to see is people say, "You're right, Luke. God help us to do better. We need to put our noses to the grindstone and get the message out that God expects better of those who claim to represent him."

Then, to my SHOCK and DISMAY, I get the opposite!

"You're a JERK!!!"

"Being uneducated is not a bad thing- not even in general!!!"

"Being smart is evil!! It's godly to be just as stupid as you can be!!!"

And so I get frustrated with people who have blinders on and I get a bit too rough.

But, it does not change the fact that the premise is accurate and very needful.

 

[Luke2427]

Another Scripture lesson for Lukie. I use "Lukie" to avoid confusion with the recorder of the following Scripture! {Note: I have taken the liberty of highlighting Lukie's more generous remarks in the above quote!}

Luke 18:9-14
9. And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
10. Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
11. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
13. And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14. I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

It's not a lesson.

It is just a copy and paste job.

The one who went home justified in the story is the one who admitted he had a problem. The Pharisee who left under the wrath of God was the one who took the position that you and others are taking on this thread.

"I'm good. The religious crowd who is like me is good. We don't NEED to work on anything."

You're perfectly ok with those who claim to believe the Bible the most being the most uneducated people in America.

You are the Pharisee in the story.

I am the one crying, "God have mercy on us!!!"

That's a Bible lesson.

Glad I could help.

 

[OldRegular]

It's not a lesson.

It is just a copy and paste job.

The one who went home justified in the story is the one who admitted he had a problem. The Pharisee who left under the wrath of God was the one who took the position that you and others are taking on this thread.

"I'm good. The religious crowd who is like me is good. We don't NEED to work on anything."

You're perfectly ok with those who claim to believe the Bible the most being the most uneducated people in America.

You are the Pharisee in the story.

I am the one crying, "God have mercy on us!!!"

That's a Bible lesson.

Glad I could help.

I assumed that as a pastor you had the ability to interpret the passage without my help.

Lukie it is obvious to all on this Forum that you are the perfect example of the Pharisee. Anyone reading the OP would come to the same conclusion. You do not admit you have a problem; it is anyone who disagrees with you who has the problem. Anyone who questions you or your perceptions is automatically uneducated or stupid. You are arrogant beyond measure. Your responses are bitter and hate filled. You repeatedly in your posts give the impression: I thank God I am not like this idiot whose remarks I must rebuke.

Anyone who questions whether or not you have the heart of a pastor should go back and read your posts in the thread Old folks who think they love old things of March 11, 2013. It is late or I would repost them myself. I did read all just to make sure I have the correct impression of you. I am not alone as many on this thread and the older thread have come to the same conclusion I have. You really need to spend some time examining yourself rather than condemning all about you. Frankly you are to be pitied but God did not have pity on the Pharisee of the parable!

 

[Luke2427]

I assumed that as a pastor you had the ability to interpret the passage without my help.

What I am does not change the fact that you called that a Bible LEASSON when all you did was copy and paste a Scripture.

Lukie it is obvious to all on this Forum that you are the perfect example of the Pharisee. Anyone reading the OP would come to the same conclusion.

It is not obvious to all on this forum. Others have commented that I have a point.

Maybe you should learn to read more thoroughly.

You do not admit you have a problem; it is anyone who disagrees with you who has the problem.

Again, you don't read very well. To Convicted I just admitted error. I do it quite regularly because I don't PRETEND to be humble like you and then not actually BE humble. I actually TRY to be humble which means not putting ON that I am humble.

That may be a bit over your head- but you'd be too proud to admit it and not for education enough to DO anything about it.

What a predicament in which you find yourself!

Anyone who questions you or your perceptions is automatically uneducated or stupid.

Nope! Wrong again. At least you are consistent.

I JUST finished a post on this thread or the other one like it in which we are discussing this matter where I said to a guy who raised some objections to my view point that he raised some fine, thoughtful and reasonable points.

You see, "old regular," its not me. Its you. I know you can't see it. Pharisees never can. But it is you who is haughty and self-righteous. It's not me. It's you. And the fact that each one of your points here is the OPPOSITE of reality is PROOF that it is you and not me.

You are arrogant beyond measure.

No. You are. You embrace and defend stupidity and divorce in the Body of Christ and you say that we ought not even work on it because we are just fine the way we are.

That is arrogance in the highest degree. You are a pompous, self-righteous, arrogant old man who is too old to learn and grow and too pompous to be taught anything.

Your responses are bitter and hate filled.

This from someone whose very post is filled with vitriol and hateful banter.

Do you not SEE what a hypocrite you are?

No, I imagine you do not. Pharisees are only good at killing those who bring needful messages to them. They are not good at seeing the need they have of the messages.

You repeatedly in your posts give the impression: I thank God I am not like this idiot whose remarks I must rebuke.

I never said that. But that is EXACTLY what you are saying right here.

You are not like me- this arrogant man you are rebuking. That is what you are saying, right?

You are a genuine, humble old man and you think "Thank God I am not like this young punk!"

Yes. You are the Pharisee in the story.

Anyone who questions whether or not you have the heart of a pastor should go back and read your posts in the thread Old folks who think they love old things of March 11, 2013. It is late or I would repost them myself. I did read all just to make sure I have the correct impression of you. I am not alone as many on this thread and the older thread have come to the same conclusion I have. You really need to spend some time examining yourself rather than condemning all about you. Frankly you are to be pitied but God did not have pity on the Pharisee of the parable!

Translation:

"I thank God that I am not like Luke! I temper my speech with worthless words that will never make a difference and never challenge anyone to improve anything. I fool people into thinking I am a fine fellow when I actually am stuck in my ways and unwilling to grow in knowledge and hate people with all my heart who try to get me to grow. I thank GOD that I have no zeal for the Kingdom and that I just want the church to remain in its slumber until it perishes from our culture. I thank God that I am not useful, that I am not challenging anyone, that I am not willing to receive a black eye for confronting the damnable status quo that is modern fundamentalism. I thank God that I am not like Luke!"

You, sir, are the epitome of a Pharisee.