Baptist attitude toward Muslims

[Brother Bob]

I have seen the video, the unedited version, no less. And what struck me the most was that these third world thugs were masters at manipulating fear.

As far as the rest of it, our church has missionaries in Iraq as we speak. They are risking their lives right now to reach the people there. Talk about love conquering fear.

love,

Sopranette

Are they in the Green zone or the south??? Have you been over there Sopranette, or on the farm in SC.

BBob,

 

[Sopranette]

I don't know. Our Pastor doesn't even give out their names, because of the danger they're in. I have not been over there myself.

love,

Sopranette

 

[Brother Bob]

I don't know. Our Pastor doesn't even give out their names, because of the danger they're in. I have not been over there myself.

love,

Sopranette

"We want to be respectful to the local religion," said the Rev. Sekyu Chang, 45, of Light Global Mission Church in Vienna, who helped set up the charity thrift store. "There is nothing outwardly Christian about the shop, but most of the workers are Christian. They are going to share their personal faith when there are occasions."
With a population estimated to be more than 95 percent Muslim and outbreaks of violence in the name of Islam occurring on an almost daily basis, Iraq is not a place where Christian missionaries can openly evangelize on street corners, hold community prayer meetings or hand out stacks of Bibles. Many say they entered the country as businessmen or aid workers, roles that let them establish relationships with Iraqis about something other than religion.

Here is how they are being missionaries. I don't mean to be mean, but they are hiding their beliefs to hand out help or sell it. They cannot make it known they are missionaries, you know why? Fear of their lives and I do not blame them. God give us enough sense to not throw ourselves in front of a 18 wheeler. More power to them and may God Bless,

 

[donnA]

sopranette, the koran teaches them to kill in anyone who does not convert to islam, the god they believe in is a god of hate and violence to unbelievers. They are a most violent people. And they believe any of them who kill any of us goes to heaven for doing it. So of course they'd want to die a martyr killing you.

 

[donnA]

I don't know. Our Pastor doesn't even give out their names, because of the danger they're in. I have not been over there myself.

love,

Sopranette

People in your church are missionaries and you have no idea what their names are?
Not mention these people who don't want to kill christians are dangerous enough the names of missionaries are a secret even to christians in their own church.

 

[Sopranette]

sopranette, the koran teaches them to kill in anyone who does not convert to islam, the god they believe in is a god of hate and violence to unbelievers. They are a most violent people. And they believe any of them who kill any of us goes to heaven for doing it. So of course they'd want to die a martyr killing you.

I'm aware of this. Actually, in recent years, I've learned more about Islam than I ever really cared to know. But the bible says they will die as murderers (in this case), and spend eternity in hell (for all Muslims.)

love,

Sopranette

 

[Sopranette]

People in your church are missionaries and you have no idea what their names are?
Not mention these people who don't want to kill christians are dangerous enough the names of missionaries are a secret even to christians in their own church.

There are missionaries in dangerous situations all over the world, and have been for centuries.

love,

Sopranette

 

[Sopranette]

"We want to be respectful to the local religion," said the Rev. Sekyu Chang, 45, of Light Global Mission Church in Vienna, who helped set up the charity thrift store. "There is nothing outwardly Christian about the shop, but most of the workers are Christian. They are going to share their personal faith when there are occasions."
With a population estimated to be more than 95 percent Muslim and outbreaks of violence in the name of Islam occurring on an almost daily basis, Iraq is not a place where Christian missionaries can openly evangelize on street corners, hold community prayer meetings or hand out stacks of Bibles. Many say they entered the country as businessmen or aid workers, roles that let them establish relationships with Iraqis about something other than religion.

Here is how they are being missionaries. I don't mean to be mean, but they are hiding their beliefs to hand out help or sell it. They cannot make it known they are missionaries, you know why? Fear of their lives and I do not blame them. God give us enough sense to not throw ourselves in front of a 18 wheeler. More power to them and may God Bless,

That may be one church's approach, but I doubt it is every church's. I don't claim to have all the answers in what is the best or safest approach.

love,

Sopranette

 

[Brother Bob]

That may be one church's approach, but I doubt it is every church's. I don't claim to have all the answers in what is the best or safest approach.

love,

Sopranette

Well, its a tough job and if any are in harm's way, I pray for them.

BBob,

 

[donnA]

There are missionaries in dangerous situations all over the world, and have been for centuries.

love,

Sopranette

I'm not saying there aren't.

 

[DHK]

Iraq is not a place where Christian missionaries can openly evangelize on street corners, hold community prayer meetings or hand out stacks of Bibles. Many say they entered the country as businessmen or aid workers, roles that let them establish relationships with Iraqis about something other than religion.

Here is how they are being missionaries. I don't mean to be mean, but they are hiding their beliefs to hand out help or sell it. They cannot make it known they are missionaries, you know why? Fear of their lives and I do not blame them. God give us enough sense to not throw ourselves in front of a 18 wheeler. More power to them and may God Bless,

I don't mean to be mean; I mean I believe you are ignorant of missions in Islamic nations, and reading through other threads perhaps a bit racist as well. An unsaved Baptist (and there are many), is just as unsaved as an unsaved Muslim. There is no difference. They both need Christ.

The Bible gives the command to "love thy neighbor as thyself." We live in a global community. Like it or not, Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan, etc. are all our neighbors. They need Christ. They need Christ as much as that unsaved Baptist and it is our obligation to get the message of the gospel to them.

You begin with a defeatist attitude, an attitude that says: "With God all things are impossible." You state that missionaries can't go into countries like Iraq preach on the street corners, openly hand out tracts, etc. Therefore they cannot be effective. Let me ask you, what percentage of American city Baptist churches do you think there are that still go out and stand on street corners having open air meetings? There may be some, but not many. Not even the majority of the churches in America evangelize that way. Why would you expect to impose that method of evangelization in Iraq.
Secondly, do all the Baptist churches you know have an aggressive door to door visitation program. Perhaps a good many of them do. Ours still does. The one I used to attend did not. Not every church believes that door to door evangelization is the best way of evangelization today, but you act or talk as if it is a requirement in another nation.

There are missionaries in all of the nations I mentioned: Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan--all of them volatile Islamic nations. These missionaries are effective and doing a work for the Lord. As I say to a friend who has a habit of saying "Why haven't I heard of it?" Because you aren't God, and you aren't omnisicient. There are many good works being done quietly among missionaries all over this world that go unrecognized by the great majority of this world. Just because you haven't heard of people being saved doesn't mean it isn't happening.

Missionaries go to nations like Iraq because God directs them to go there. They go there without the fear of man, but with a fear of God. They sacrifice the comforts of their North American homes and their families, and live in conditions which would seem unbearable to many others. No sacrifice is too great to win some.

And BTW, when asked, most often they do tell that they are missionaries there to tell them about Jesus Christ, not ashamed of gospel of Jesus Christ, the very reason that they are there--to tell them of the One that can save. But what would one who has never been on a mission field know of the wonderful protection and guidance of the Lord Jesus Christ?

 

[Brother Bob]

I don't mean to be mean; I mean I believe you are ignorant of missions in Islamic nations, and reading through other threads perhaps a bit racist as well. An unsaved Baptist (and there are many), is just as unsaved as an unsaved Muslim. There is no difference. They both need Christ.

The Bible gives the command to "love thy neighbor as thyself." We live in a global community. Like it or not, Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan, etc. are all our neighbors. They need Christ. They need Christ as much as that unsaved Baptist and it is our obligation to get the message of the gospel to them.

You begin with a defeatist attitude, an attitude that says: "With God all things are impossible." You state that missionaries can't go into countries like Iraq preach on the street corners, openly hand out tracts, etc. Therefore they cannot be effective. Let me ask you, what percentage of American city Baptist churches do you think there are that still go out and stand on street corners having open air meetings? There may be some, but not many. Not even the majority of the churches in America evangelize that way. Why would you expect to impose that method of evangelization in Iraq.
Secondly, do all the Baptist churches you know have an aggressive door to door visitation program. Perhaps a good many of them do. Ours still does. The one I used to attend did not. Not every church believes that door to door evangelization is the best way of evangelization today, but you act or talk as if it is a requirement in another nation.

There are missionaries in all of the nations I mentioned: Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan--all of them volatile Islamic nations. These missionaries are effective and doing a work for the Lord. As I say to a friend who has a habit of saying "Why haven't I heard of it?" Because you aren't God, and you aren't omnisicient. There are many good works being done quietly among missionaries all over this world that go unrecognized by the great majority of this world. Just because you haven't heard of people being saved doesn't mean it isn't happening.

Missionaries go to nations like Iraq because God directs them to go there. They go there without the fear of man, but with a fear of God. They sacrifice the comforts of their North American homes and their families, and live in conditions which would seem unbearable to many others. No sacrifice is too great to win some.

And BTW, when asked, most often they do tell that they are missionaries there to tell them about Jesus Christ, not ashamed of gospel of Jesus Christ, the very reason that they are there--to tell them of the One that can save. But what would one who has never been on a mission field know of the wonderful protection and guidance of the Lord Jesus Christ?

I don't mean to be mean

In the first place: yes you do too. It is your personality. You can't help yourself.

You forget what the "great commission is" and ramble on about missionaries over in Iraq and I posted what they themselves say about serving over there. Instead of calling me a racist and insulting me, why not give me some examples of missionaries saving some of them Iraqs.

I also would like for you to give your experience in being in Iraq and serving as a missionary instead of asking me. Please be my guest instead of running off at me.

I think you talk as a foolish man to talk as if you know a better way than those who are actually over there and say they have to keep silent about being missionaries.

Please tell me what good you are by keeping your mouth shut about our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, and fulfill the "great commission".

And Sir, our tax dollars pay more and do more than you with a few of your missionaries will ever do.

The very missionaries over there say they have to keep their mouth shut, but you sitting safely back here at home know more than they do.

I also would like to know how many muslims have your saved, or led to salvation to be able to make such comments to me. Show your credentials first, then talk.

You can call me a racist all you want, it does not mean anything to me coming from you.

Iraq is not a place where Christian missionaries can openly evangelize on street corners, hold community prayer meetings or hand out stacks of Bibles. Many say they entered the country as businessmen or aid workers, roles that let them establish relationships with Iraqis about something other than religion.

These are not my words but the words of a Pastor who sent missionaries over to Iraq. You shut down threads when we talk like you do, but then you come on and call people names, insult them to a degree worse than any of the posters on here. You should be ashame of yourself, You didn't have to stick your nose in this, you thought this to be another chance for you to run off at another poster. Again, you are attacking me for the words of a Pastor who has missionaries over there.

BBob,

 

[DHK]

In the first place: yes you do too. It is your personality. You can't help yourself.

It grieves my heart when I hear people who take this attitude toward missions:

They cannot make it known they are missionaries, you know why? Fear of their lives and I do not blame them. God give us enough sense to not throw ourselves in front of a 18 wheeler.

That is horrible, just horrible. I wasn't being mean. I was being factual. You have a very poor perspective of missions especially when it comes to Islamic nations. Why not give up on missions or evangelizing in America as well. Is the life of an American worth more or less than that of an Iraqi Moslem? I hope you know the correct answer.

You forget what the "great commission is" and ramble on about missionaries over in Iraq and I posted what they themselves say about serving over there. Instead of calling me a racist and insulting me, why not give me some examples of missionaries saving some of them Iraqs.

Your quote was insulting. No they can't preach on the streets. And most Americans don't preach on the streets either. They don't even take the liberties that they do have.

I also would like for you to give your experience in being in Iraq and serving as a missionary instead of asking me. Please be my guest instead of running off at me.

If you look at my profile it says "missionary." I live in Canada much of the time, but I visit and serve in other nations, some of them in that part of the world. I am not going to give you specifics on the internet for obvious reasons. Of the places I do go, I know the culture, the language(s), the living conditions, and am well acquainted with the various ways of reaching out to the Muslims of these nations.

I think you talk as a foolish man to talk as if you know a better way than those who are actually over there and say they have to keep silent about being missionaries.

I am one of those missionaries. Sometimes when you receive one of these posts, though it says Canada on my post, I am actually posting from across the ocean somewhere. But you would not know that.

Please tell me what good you are by keeping your mouth shut about our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, and fulfill the "great commission".

I don't know what you are speaking about.

And Sir, our tax dollars pay more and do more than you with a few of your missionaries will ever do.

This is a very pitiful statement.

The very missionaries over there say they have to keep their mouth shut, but you sitting safely back here at home know more than they do.

How would you know? You don't even know for sure where I am posting from. They say they can't preach from the street corners which is true--something you probably don't do anyway. That doesn't stop them from evangelizing.

I also would like to know how many muslims have your saved, or led to salvation to be able to make such comments to me. Show your credentials first, then talk.

There are reasons why I don't post such information on the internet. Again, that should be obvious.

Again, you are attacking me for the words of a Pastor who has missionaries over there.
BBob,

No, not at all. These are your words:

"They cannot make it known they are missionaries, you know why? Fear of their lives and I do not blame them. God give us enough sense to not throw ourselves in front of a 18 wheeler."

And that is pitiable.

 

[Brother Bob]

"They cannot make it known they are missionaries, you know why? Fear of their lives and I do not blame them. God give us enough sense to not throw ourselves in front of a 18 wheeler."

And that is pitiable.__________________
DHK

The above are my words, which you call pitiful, and below are the words of the Pastor of the missionaries over in Iraq. You tell me the difference in my words and his. They protect themselves and if you read what I posted, I said I did not blame them for fear of their lives, and that is exactly why they do it.


By Ariana Eunjung Cha
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, May 16, 2004; Page A24
"We want to be respectful to the local religion," said the Rev. Sekyu Chang, 45, of Light Global Mission Church in Vienna, who helped set up the charity thrift store. "There is nothing outwardly Christian about the shop, but most of the workers are Christian. They are going to share their personal faith when there are occasions."
With a population estimated to be more than 95 percent Muslim and outbreaks of violence in the name of Islam occurring on an almost daily basis, Iraq is not a place where Christian missionaries can openly evangelize on street corners, hold community prayer meetings or hand out stacks of Bibles. Many say they entered the country as businessmen or aid workers, roles that let them establish relationships with Iraqis about something other than religion.
Over the past year, Christian aid groups have played a significant, if unofficial, role in the reconstruction, helping with various projects: repairing water purification facilities, building a book-bag factory to create employment and holding classes to teach people English. And some have drawn criticism that they endanger the lives of secular aid workers and the military because insurgents may associate Christianity with Western domination, or because they disguise their intentions.

When you attacked me and call what I say pitiful, you are also attacking the missionaries over there and their Pastor, for they do exactly what I said I did not blame them for doing and that is saving their lives.

BTW; If you do go in harms way, I will say a prayer for you.

BBob,

 

[DHK]

Over the past year, Christian aid groups have played a significant, if unofficial, role in the reconstruction, helping with various projects: repairing water purification facilities, building a book-bag factory to create employment and holding classes to teach people English. And some have drawn criticism that they endanger the lives of secular aid workers and the military because insurgents may associate Christianity with Western domination, or because they disguise their intentions.

It is true that many missionaries go to lands that are hard to get into as teachers or as professionals in other fields of service. They often do valuable social work, and then work as missionaries as well.
In many Islamic nations America is looked upon as "The Great Satan," or the bully of the world. Even in my case just being caucasion labels me as an American. It is a "shoot on sight; ask questions later" attitude. We are all put in the same boat, though I have nothing to do with America or her policies.
(They love the aid; and they love to blame--quite hypocritical)

"Christians" that are being referred are not always "Christians," in such a report. They may be RCC, J.W.'s Charismatics, etc. The word "Christians" simply means under the umbrella of Christendom.
The fact is that no matter what the person's intention, every person whose color is white is in danger in these nations. Islamic nations tend to be very emotional and volatile. Baptists in general don't cause problems. What I have found among the "Christians" that have given us a bad reputation is:
1. the J.W. who teach that one should not salute their own flag (unpatriotic),
2. They should not join the army even if it is required in that nation.
When you teach, in the name of religion, to disobey the law of the land, that brings a black eye to Christianity for the Muslim doesn't differentiate between all the different "sects" of Christianity.

The Charismatics also cause some disturbance among the people. Some of them will start speaking in tongues in a bus full of Muslims. What did Paul say? "Will they not think you are mad?" And they do!

None of the above is similar in nature to your statement which still baffles me:

"They cannot make it known they are missionaries, you know why? Fear of their lives and I do not blame them. God give us enough sense to not throw ourselves in front of a 18 wheeler."

Relying on the grace of God, the protection of God, is not comparable to throwing oneself in front of an 18 wheeler. That is what I consider an insult for any misssionary who is called to the foreign missionfield.

A person in the center of the will of God, though he is in the most dangerous part of the world, is safer than any Christian outside of the will of God.

 

[blackbird]

You might want to consider the quote more carefully.



The use of the word "the" and the Capitalization of "God" in "love of the one God" indicates that both Islam and Christianity worship the exact same God.

Islam is a religion of God deniers

Jesus said that whosoever denies the Son---denies the Father!!!!

Islam is an antichrist and therefore cannot and do not worship the same God as the one true God of Israel

 

[Brother Bob]

None of the above is similar in nature to your statement which still baffles me:

"They cannot make it known they are missionaries, you know why? Fear of their lives and I do not blame them. God give us enough sense to not throw ourselves in front of a 18 wheeler."

Relying on the grace of God, the protection of God, is not comparable to throwing oneself in front of an 18 wheeler. That is what I consider an insult for any misssionary who is called to the foreign missionfield.

All I am saying is if they did certain things such as try to set up a church and building for Christians, they know it would bring sudden death and so is throwing onesself in front of an 18 wheeler.

BBob,

 

[Revmitchell]

Islam is a religion of God deniers

Jesus said that whosoever denies the Son---denies the Father!!!!

Islam is an antichrist and therefore cannot and do not worship the same God as the one true God of Israel

Were you supporting what I said or trying to correct it?

 

[donnA]

Islam is a religion of God deniers

Jesus said that whosoever denies the Son---denies the Father!!!!

Islam is an antichrist and therefore cannot and do not worship the same God as the one true God of Israel

AMEN!:jesus:

 

[DHK]

All I am saying is if they did certain things such as try to set up a church and building for Christians, they know it would bring sudden death and so is throwing onesself in front of an 18 wheeler.
BBob,

No it isn't Bob.
Think back in American history to the treatment of the blacks in your nation. They were persecuted. They were treated as inferior. They had their own churches. Sometimes their churches were burned to the ground, but it wasn't a regular thing. Sometimes they were even killed, but it wasn't a regular thing. Being black wasn't equivalent to throwing oneself in front of an 18 wheeler. That is an absurd comparison.

The same comparison can be made for the Christian minorities in Islamic nations today. They are persecuted as a minority. They live in their own communities, quite often like black ghettos without much of the amenities that the Muslims have. Sometimes they undergo very harsh persecution, even death, but not always. The situation in those countries is very comparable to the way that Americans treated blacks just 100 years ago or more.