Bible Scavenger Hunt

[tyndale1946]

I am SO GLAD that I don't debate the "real meaning" of Daniel and Revelation prophecy.

Well if you been on here long enough, one brother quotes a scripture and you will get ten different interpretations of that same scripture... Daniel and Revelation?... Loose thy shoes from off thy foot, because where thou standeth is holy ground... Brother Glen

 

[Yeshua1]

Where? The verse that you quoted above does not mention abomination, Dave. There is no sacrilege in what the Romans did--it was a pure military destruction. Abomination of desolation means a sacrilege, Dave. It would have been recorded in Jewish and/or secular history--it was not.

There HAD to be a leader set Himself up in ther temple as being God, and that never was recorded as happening!

 

[MartyF]

Does scripture directly support any of today’s most popular doctrines?

The 7 year tribulation?

The pre-trib rapture?

The restored Roman Empire?

The rebuilt Temple?

The return to animal sacrifices?

Russia marching on Israel?

A Gap between Daniel’s 69th and 70th weeks?

I've heard of the first, second, and fourth. I didn't know about the others. One of the reasons why I am still perusing the forums is that I read what seems to me to be the wildest things. So I guess I'll do a web search or something to see what they are about. Not that I will believe them. I just want to be informed about them.

Marty

 

[Rockson]

What's called by some the 7 year tribulation (although I don't believe it's called that but men do) comes from the scriptures of Daniel 9 which says there will be seventy seven of years or 490 years. They claim that the 69th year ended at the crucifixion of Jesus and one year segment (of seven years) was put off to the end time. Daniel 9:24 In Daniel 9:27 is states (whom some call the anti-Christ)

"....will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.' In the middle of the 'seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.”

And then another 3 1/2 years to finish off the seven.

Well was such a thing put off to the end times? Is one an amillennialist or a futurists?

I take the position of being a futurists but I don't believe this 7 years period can be called....the tribulation period. If one is talking about all the things that transpire after Rev 6 that is the wrath of God and that's not called the tribulation....Tribulation is persecution of the saints which takes place before the wrath.

Tribulation taking place in 70 AD? Tribulation IS persecution and their was the overthrow of Jerusalem in 70 AD and yes you can say that's tribulation. What Jesus was talking about in Matt 24 and other passages I think while including 70 AD things it still connected to a persecution at the end of time as well.

 

[1689Dave]

You should really quote the actual scriptures. The ones that I am familiar with say ...

[Mat 24:36 NASB] 36 "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.
[Mar 13:32 NASB] 32 "But of that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but the Father [alone.]

So "about 7 years after the start of a Great Tribulation" might give you a rough idea of when, but certainly not an exact "day and hour".

But, there is no 7 year tribulation in scripture. So you need not try to reconcile this obvious blunder with the Father only knowing the time of the end.

 

[1689Dave]

Where? The verse that you quoted above does not mention abomination, Dave. There is no sacrilege in what the Romans did--it was a pure military destruction. Abomination of desolation means a sacrilege, Dave. It would have been recorded in Jewish and/or secular history--it was not.

Luke parallels Matthew 24 interpreting it for us.

“For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.” (Luke 21:22)

 

[1689Dave]

I think the Jews in WW II, the Christians slaughtered now in Africa, and others would disagree with you!

Study Josephus on the destruction of Jerusalem and consider Jesus' words instead of challenging them.

 

[1689Dave]

Where? The verse that you quoted above does not mention abomination, Dave. There is no sacrilege in what the Romans did--it was a pure military destruction. Abomination of desolation means a sacrilege, Dave. It would have been recorded in Jewish and/or secular history--it was not.

Luke and Matthew are parallel passages that interpret each other. Don't make it say more than it does.

 

[1689Dave]

Who wroye that? The manof Sin himself willa rise in the temple and proclaim Himself as God and cause the ceasing, as in the Abomination that causes desolation, Jesus NOT part of that fulfillment!

Be aware, Jesus fulfilled Daniel 9:27 on time as predicted. You are saying he did not, and are converting him into Antichrist.

 

[church mouse guy]

Luke and Matthew are parallel passages that interpret each other. Don't make it say more than it does.

Dave, where's the sacrilege in 70AD?

 

[Jordan Kurecki]

It cannot be a millennial kingdom. Satan attacks the kingdom when loosed. John says when the 1000 years are finished, Satan is loosed. This means the 1000 years represent Satan's binding and nothing more. Let's be careful not to add to John's words.

Wait a minute. So satan attacks the kingdom...that you say won’t exist? You are contradicting yourself.

 

[Rockson]

Study Josephus on the destruction of Jerusalem and consider Jesus' words instead of challenging them.

So are you a believer in preterism? Full partial or what?

 

[robycop3]

Does scripture directly support any of today’s most popular doctrines?

The 7 year tribulation?

Jesus said if it were not cut short, then no flesh(man or animal) would survive. Thus, I beliebe He will cut it short, about 3.5 years in length, with His return.

[qiote]The pre-trib rapture?[/quote]

Paul mentions it, and Jesus said he'd keeo believers from the wrath to come.

The restored Roman Empire?

It most likely won't be called "Rome", but the antichrist's empire will be made up at first largely from peoples/nations that were once part of the old RE and HRE.

The rebuilt Temple?

Definitely. Scripture speax of sacrifices later being stopped in the temple, an event which had already occurred in the old temple at that time - as well as the antichrist sitting in it & setting up his statue in it.

The return to animal sacrifices?

the Orthodox Jews fully intend to do so when they build their new temple. They're already breeding animals to be used in such sacrifices.

Russia marching on Israel?

Appears Russia will lead a coalition of mostly-Muslim nations against Israel in the "Gog-Magog war".

A Gap between Daniel’s 69th and 70th weeks?

Going on right now.

 

[1689Dave]

Jesus said if it were not cut short, then no flesh(man or animal) would survive. Thus, I beliebe He will cut it short, about 3.5 years in length, with His return.

[qiote]The pre-trib rapture?

Paul mentions it, and Jesus said he'd keeo believers from the wrath to come.



It most likely won't be called "Rome", but the antichrist's empire will be made up at first largely from peoples/nations that were once part of the old RE and HRE.



Definitely. Scripture speax of sacrifices later being stopped in the temple, an event which had already occurred in the old temple at that time - as well as the antichrist sitting in it & setting up his statue in it.


the Orthodox Jews fully intend to do so when they build their new temple. They're already breeding animals to be used in such sacrifices.


Appears Russia will lead a coalition of mostly-Muslim nations against Israel in the "Gog-Magog war".



Going on right now.[/QUOTE]
Can you support any of this with direct quotes from scripture? We know what the doctrines say. We just cannot validate them using direct quotes from scripture like we can all other doctrines of scripture..

 

[1689Dave]

So are you a believer in preterism? Full partial or what?

No, I'm Amillennial. But unlike the Reformed or Lutheran Amillennialists, I believe the church is spiritual made up of believers only.

 

[1689Dave]

Wait a minute. So satan attacks the kingdom...that you say won’t exist? You are contradicting yourself.

No, the 1000 years = Satan's binding. It is not the kingdom. Satan attacks the kingdom when the 1000 years end.

 

[1689Dave]

Dave, where's the sacrilege in 70AD?

Luke says the abomination of desolation (Antiochus Epiphanes did this already but remains a symbol) = the surrounding of Jerusalem with armies.

“And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.” (Luke 21:20–22)

Jesus said

“When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.” (Matthew 24:15–21)

 

[church mouse guy]

Luke says the abomination of desolation (Antiochus Epiphanes did this already but remains a symbol) = the surrounding of Jerusalem with armies.

“And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.” (Luke 21:20–22)

Jesus said

“When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.” (Matthew 24:15–21)

Two different things, aren't they? Who stood in the holy place in 70 AD?

 

[1689Dave]

This helps understand where the doctrines listed in the OP came from. I have them in Clarence Larkin's book Dispensational Truth. But this is an easy to read overview.

As part of the Counter Reformation, the Catholic Church commissioned Jesuit priests to write counter interpretations of Bible prophecy as a counter response to the Protestant reformation when the finger was pointed at them as being antichrist. Spanish Jesuit, Francisco Ribera proposed that the final seven years of the 70 weeks of Daniel was a future antichrist and that antichrist would bring an end to sacrifices in a rebuilt temple. This is where the supposed 7 years of tribulation comes from before the second coming of Christ. But this was manufactured prophecy, written with the sole purpose of deceiving Christians on the true identity of antichrist. When has a Bible passage ever been so abused by Satan? Attributing Daniel’s 70th week of Jesus’ baptism and crucifixion and applying it instead to antichrist is outright blasphemous. http://www.daniels70weeks.com

 

[1689Dave]

Two different things, aren't they? Who stood in the holy place in 70 AD?

Luke interprets Matthew for us. They both speak of the same events. Jesus said "whoso readeth, let him understand". Luke provided the understanding for us.