But shouldn't we interpret the Bible spiritually instead of literally?

[agedman]

Please give examples of "the prophets, the apostles, and The Lord Jesus Christ" teaching the millennial reign. A millennium populated by hordes of evil, unregenerate men.

There is no “hordes of evil,” men. But fallen men who must submit to the rule of Christ, for any rebelliousness is immediately and thoroughly resolved. Hence the term applied to that rule as being with “a rod of iron.”

Perhaps you can show how this current age can be compared to that which the statements of Scripture present.

Are there not islands and mountains, is Jerusalem a sea port, where is the Ezekiel temple that has no gentle or women’s court, ...

 

[Iconoclast]

Try this Scripture -

Jer. 23:5 “Behold, the days are coming,” says the Lord,
“That I will raise to David a Branch of righteousness;
A King shall reign and prosper,
And execute judgment and righteousness in the earth.
6 In His days Judah will be saved,
And Israel will dwell safely;
Now this is His name by which He will be called:

THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

7 “Therefore, behold, the days are coming,” says the Lord, “that they shall no longer say, ‘As the Lord lives who brought up the children of Israel from the land of Egypt,’ 8 but, ‘As the Lord lives who brought up and led the descendants of the house of Israel from the north country and from all the countries where I had driven them.’ And they shall dwell in their own land.”​

Yes . This I tried to offer earlier as a link to the first Exodus.

 

[Iconoclast]

There is no “hordes of evil,” men. But fallen men who must submit to the rule of Christ, for any rebelliousness is immediately and thoroughly resolved. Hence the term applied to that rule as being with “a rod of iron.”

Perhaps you can show how this current age can be compared to that which the statements of Scripture present.

Are there not islands and mountains, is Jerusalem a sea port, where is the Ezekiel temple that has no gentle or women’s court, ...

Sinners sin every day...so how do you see the rod of iron rule actually operating?

 

[robycop3]

Could a literal white horse breathe in outer space?

If Jesus wanted it to. He made a donkey talk WITH GOD, ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE.

Would it move very slow so it did not burn up on re-entry? Or would it be a supernatural "white horse"....like a hologram?

See my above response.

John.....does Satan get bound by a literal chain like we can buy at Ace hardware?
Or is the "image" of a chain convey an idea that whatever is necessary to bind a Spirit is used to limit the activity of the spirit?

Whatever kind of chain it'll be, it'll hold Satan.

 

[Covenanter]

Can anyone point out a prophecy by Jesus that hasn't LITERALLY come to pass? (Of those that have already been fulfilled)

Hab 2:11 The stones of the wall will cry out, and the beams of the woodwork will echo it.

Luke 19:40 “I tell you,” he replied, “if they keep quiet, the stones will cry out.”

Or as John warned:
Mat 3:9 And do not think you can say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham.​

 

[Iconoclast]

If Jesus wanted it to. He made a donkey talk WITH GOD, ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE.



See my above response.



Whatever kind of chain it'll be, it'll hold Satan.

If Jesus wanted it to. He made a donkey talk WITH GOD, ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE.

Whatever kind of chain it'll be, it'll hold Satan.

I agree with you here....in fact Jesus could just appear on a horse....it would not bother me.

There could be a literal dragon, or ten headed beast.....
Or they could represent literal governments or rulers..that is part of this discussion.
He could have a literal sword coming out of His mouth, or it could be a symbol of His word as in Heb4

 

[Iconoclast]

agedman,
][I find it very strange that there is a desire to "spiritualize" rather than to seek the actuality of the last day fulfillments.

Why is there some great avoidance and actual psychological hindrance in embracing a literal millennium, a literal return of Christ as the Scriptures clearly teach?]
Hello AG.

I do not think it is a desire to spiritualise...as much as a desire to rightly divide the word of truth. Some look at it differently, yet all claim literal truth.


[The early church taught a literal physical time in which Christ would rule this whole world.

What changed?]

One time I read that they thought Jesus would return in a literal thousand years....so when 1034 came and went, they took another look at it.

 

[Covenanter]

@John of Japan
I would appreciate a reply to my post #14 But shouldn't we interpret the Bible spiritually instead of literally?

 

[Iconoclast]

="John of Japan,

[Okay. Typology. The literal method recognizes typology, only we would say Moses is the type, not the exodus. What's the relevance here?]

Please pay attention. I answered this already.

YOUR answer was to say I am mocking
And that angels have a bodily presence...it was a response more than an answer.....you say a physical body.....scripture says there is a physical body, there is a spiritual body also....angels are ministering spirits.....

 

[Iconoclast]

Yes, nonsense!

That is a disgusting metaphor and I will thank you not to pollute the forum with such crudities.

It is coming from your childish mockery of God's word.

That is just pathetic.

Equally pathetic.

Mockery is a tacit admission of failure on your part. You can't honestly discuss the issue so you engage in mockery which exposes your fallacy.

"Appeal to Ridicule is a type of logical fallacy. Logical fallacy is using false logic to try to make a claim or argument. Appeal to ridicule is a fallacy that attempts to make a claim look ridiculous by mocking it or exaggerating it in a negative way."
www.softschools.com/examples/fallacies/appeal_to_ridicule_examples/519/

As I said, pathetic.

Yes TC I could admit the colorful metaphor I used was a bit on the crude side but it was designed to get your attention. Out here on the road and among truck drivers that metaphor is immediately understood as suggesting that the person who you're directing it to woke up on the wrong side of the bed or has stones in his shoe or whatever of the polite metaphor you would prefer but
out here everyone knows exactly what it means.
I think your ad hominem attack towards me was unprovoked and that's what I find pathetic and ridiculous
. You might not agree with what I offer and you might think it makes no sense or no one pays attention to it so that's fine I like your post for the most part although I don't always agree but you know you're welcome to your opinion.
when you and John can't seem to offer a solid enough answer you accuse the other person of mockery or make a personal attack .
that's something I've noticed .for the most part I'm supportive a lot of what you post but I can't support this behavior that you exhibit to some of us who don't agree with your point of view
. to explore the metaphors the symbols the types in a way that's different than what you and John think of truth I think they're both legitimate they think this been many people and many in history have done the very same thing that you are calling pathetic of ridiculous.

 

[thatbrian]

Really?? Literalists ignore the genre?

Terms have meanings. I said, literalistically.

 

[thatbrian]

This is the worst misunderstanding of dispensationalism I've ever seen on the BB. "Schizophrenia within the Godhead"?? Really?

Your idea that dispensationalists only read the OT to moralize or interpret Revelation is the worst kind of false charge. I read the OT every single day of the year, and am blessed greatly by truths in the OT: God's care for us, His love for us, His plan for the ages, fulfilled prophecy in OT times (Isaiah is full of this), etc., etc. I taught through Isaiah in a Tokyo Bible school for what was supposed to be a 2 credit class, but was so blessed I couldn't get through the book in one semester, but with the president's permission taught a second semester of it.

I really hope you withdraw this ridiculous false charge.

[Insult edited]

My comments are generalizations, of course. I can't argue against every nuance of dispensationalism. I argue against what I see in this errant movement.

The logical implication of a dispensational view is that one should ignore the OT. Surely, if you are are an honest man, you will agree. A past dispensation means little (nothing) because it's irrelevant.

 

[prophecy70]

Why do you insist on mocking literal interpretations over and over? You are proving nothing except your own attitude.

Riding a white horse is a completely normal thing to do. When I rode with my grandfather, I rode a bay while he rode a huge, powerful, white Tennessee Walker.

Im not mocking anything. If he did, [Mockery edited] Its not mockery.

You said you have no patience for preterism and do not think to highly of it, but when I said something about the literalness of a verse, i'm mocking it?

Yes white horses are very nice, nobody said it wasn't normal.

 

[prophecy70]

If the 1000 years of Rev. 20 is a figure of speech, why is it repeated six times in the chapter? That is not how figures of speech are presented in literature. So, that means that if you take the 1000 years as a figure of speech, you have to prove how it is one six times in a row. Got any proofs? What type of figure of speech is it?

That was just a robycop3 response. I enjoy his replies.

Do you know how AT Robertson explained it? If the repetitiveness was clear literalness, why was he so mistaken?

When I came on here, I had no position on the Millennium. I always was a PreMill because it was the only thing I have ever heard of... I am learning a lot thanks to the wonderful friends I have found on here. This site is truly a blessing.
The only thing I was sure of was the Discourse...

 

[prophecy70]

Why anyone would want to deny Christ His rightful honor and glory is beyond me.

Because we think the white horse is symbolic?
Jesus's rightful honor and glory does not depend on him riding a literal white horse.

We believe he is sitting on the Throne of David now, Reigning in his kingdom (the Church) Until the day of Judgment.
Millennialists are waiting for his reign during a future millennium, during a time where the temple system is brought back.

In this situation I do not believe its us who is denying Christ of anything.

 

[TCassidy]

Because we think the white horse is symbolic?

No.

Jesus's rightful honor and glory does not depend on him riding a literal white horse.

I know.

 

[Aaron]

​

I remember riding horses with my grandfather, who rode a white Tennessee Walking Horse named "Mac." He always looked regal on Mac. Why in the world could Jesus not ride a white horse? It's a kingly, regal thing to do. Do you suppose he'll come in a VW or something?

Why do those who "spiritually" interpret and oppose the literal view of the text always mock things that are clearly written in Scripture? I sincerely don't understand this practice. White horses are completely normal.

Did your grandfather wear bloody clothes and a stack of hats, too?

I think the actuality will be more glorious and terrifying than can be imagined. An actual white horse would be an abasement, like if He returned to dwell in a temple made with hands.

 

[Aaron]

....wow, thought it was gonna be a cloud, no wait, maybe it was a bolt of lightning.....

I thought the symbolism of the white horse was unmistakable, even when I was a Dispy. I am utterly surprised that anyone actually thinks Christ will be riding a white horse out of Heaven.

 

[thatbrian]

I thought the symbolism of the white horse was unmistakable, even when I was a Dispy. I am utterly surprised that anyone actually thinks Christ will be riding a white horse out of Heaven.

If someone, who takes a "literal" approach, mind you, could get Apache Helicopters from this passage, then the white horse is not too bad:

The locusts looked like horses prepared for battle. On their heads they wore something like crowns of gold, and their faces resembled human faces. Their hair was like women’s hair, and their teeth were like lions’ teeth. They had breastplates like breastplates of iron, and the sound of their wings was like the thundering of many horses and chariots rushing into battle. They had tails with stingers, like scorpions, and in their tails they had power to torment people for five months.​

 

[robycop3]

Hab 2:11 The stones of the wall will cry out, and the beams of the woodwork will echo it.

Luke 19:40 “I tell you,” he replied, “if they keep quiet, the stones will cry out.”

Or as John warned:
Mat 3:9 And do not think you can say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham.​

Those are not prophecies.