Bye TULIP, Hi GRACE

Just so you all know, the acronym GRACE is not in the Bible.
Neither is tulip.
So what is your point?

 

The Messiah elected all of His own before the foundation of the world . None 'become' elect , they already are . They enter the world under the wrath of God as does everyone . However , the elect will be effectually called and savingly united to the Messiah in their lifetime .The Lord makes it happen .

Your words " God elected those who will be saved" need sme explanation . Because if by that you mean that people can 'will' to be saved you are mistaken . The Lamb ( also known as the Shepherd -- strange , but true ) came with the specific intention to save His sheep and no one else .

Yes , when the Lord saves our souls He is our Savior . That's rather basic .

 

So why do you have a problem with the use of the TULIP acronym? I realize you do not agree with the doctrine, but your GRACE is just as much of a man made simplification as TULIP.

 

good point....

 

Yes , it is a good point as James has said . Also Ed , G-R-A-C-E is nearly so well-developed as what the Synod of Dort hammered-out . Have you examined the Canons of Dort ?

 

Thank you, Brother Rippon.
Well said.

And may I add, this effectual call and getting savingly united is all of the Spirit, apart from any human means.

 

Not quite sure what you mean here, but I do believe this will cause human action and even humans means (decreed by God) are used to bring about salvation.
God does use means to His ends.

Removing mans responsibility is just as wrong as removing God's sovereignty

 

And all the scriptures that say you must believe, or believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved. Should of said; "when you believe, then will you be saved, even though you were aready saved before the foundation of the world. Who cares whether you want to believe or not, I say you will believe, and that is all I got to say on the matter. Its like a box of chocolates, you never know whether you are one of the elect or not, but if you are, then you are saved. (sarcasm)...........................

 

A rather unedifying post.
We do not claim that you are saved before the foundation of the world, only that you are elected to salvation.
You can't be saved unless you have something the be saved from.

 

That is a cop out and you know it. You do claim to be one of the elect before the foundation of the world and the "elect" are saved.

Rippon; The Messiah elected all of His own before the foundation of the world . None 'become' elect , they already are . They enter the world under the wrath of God as does everyone . However , the elect will be effectually called and savingly united to the Messiah in their lifetime .The Lord makes it happen .

Why didn't you call Rippon's hand on this then??

Dale-c; Not quite sure what you mean here, but I do believe this will cause human action and even humans means (decreed by God) are used to bring about salvation.
God does use means to His ends.




BBob,:BangHead:

 

Matthew 13:44 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field.

Matthew 13:38 The field is the world; ...

1 Timothy 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Now we know that the scripture testifies “Revelation 22:18-19 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.”

Luke 19:10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

Why seek with irresistible grace?

Hebrews 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

These that are spoken of are referred to as “sanctified” and yet they are definitely not saved


2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

These that are spoken of are referred to as “bought” and yet they are definitely not saved

My friend, who is teaching you the ways of truth? Scripture says in I John 2:27 "ye need not that any man teach you"

Ps 25:4
Shew me thy ways, O LORD; teach me thy paths.
Ps 25:5
Lead me in thy truth, and teach me: for thou art the God of my salvation; on thee do I wait all the day.
Ps 27:11
Teach me thy way, O LORD, and lead me in a plain path, because of mine enemies.
Ps 86:11
Teach me thy way, O LORD; I will walk in thy truth: unite my heart to fear thy name.
Ps 119:12
Blessed art thou, O LORD: teach me thy statutes.
Ps 119:26
I have declared my ways, and thou heardest me: teach me thy statutes.
Ps 119:33
HE. Teach me, O LORD, the way of thy statutes; and I shall keep it unto the end.
Ps 119:64
The earth, O LORD, is full of thy mercy: teach me thy statutes.
Ps 119:66
Teach me good judgment and knowledge: for I have believed thy commandments.
Ps 119:68
Thou art good, and doest good; teach me thy statutes.
Ps 119:108
Accept, I beseech thee, the freewill offerings of my mouth, O LORD, and teach me thy judgments.
Ps 119:124
Deal with thy servant according unto thy mercy, and teach me thy statutes.
Ps 119:135
Make thy face to shine upon thy servant; and teach me thy statutes.
Ps 143:10
Teach me to do thy will; for thou art my God: thy spirit is good; lead me into the land of uprightness.

Does God use men to teach? Absolutely but only while seeking God with your whole heart and without guile desirous to obtain His understanding of things will you escape deception. Proverbs 3:5-7 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil.

Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

1 Corinthians 3:18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.

Ephesians 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

A brother in Christ

 

Regeneration is a work of the Holy Spirit apart from human means. The gospel does not regenerate, and it will never regenerate.

However, the regenerate soul that hears the gospel message responds to it because he is already regenerate, and proof of his being an elect child of God is his taking action on the gospel call to repentance, faith, and belief.

The unregenerate will not repent, have Godly faith, and exhibit belief.

Is the gospel call the effectual call ?
It is not.
The Spirit's call, His voice, is the effectual call, not the preacher's voice.

Therefore, the man who professes to be a child of God, but lives like a child of hell, is a big question mark, since he has not acted on his responsibility towards his Savior.

I have not discarded human responsibility, but responsibility only exists where the responsibility is laid down.

Like Paul said:

"How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! But they have not all obeyed the gospel........"

 

I have concluded, from the many debates and argumentations I have participated in, and watched in the sidelines, that this entire confusion stems from misunderstanding and inability to distinghuish between being saved from the penalty of sin which is eternal in its character and alone is OF God, FROM God, and BY God, thru Jesus Christ the Messiah, and being saved from the fruits of sin which is unbelief, idolatry, theft, adultery, and so on, which is definitely a CHOICE thing, based on obedience, knowledge, instruction and understanding.

Eternal salvation is not the same as timely salvation.

The former is unconditional, the latter is conditional.
The former was planned in eternity past, executed in time but encompassing those born before the cross and after the cross, the latter is to be executed by the elect in time thru the preaching of the gospel, the instruction of the gospel, and is limited in scope to those who hear the gospel and therefore does not affect the eternal salvation of those who never hear the gospel.

 

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

1 Timothy 2:3-6 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

1 John 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified [him] not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

How can it die if it is already dead.

BBob,

 

Please tell me how it is a cop out?
ANd, no I don't know it because it isn't.

Once again, the elect are the ones that will be drawn to a saving faith.
The gospel goes to the world in general.
Those who are elect will be regenerated and will believe.
All who believe will be saved.

This is all rather simple. I don't see how you can keep misunderstanding it constantly?

 

Could you please cite a reference to election in the Bible that is future tense?