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- Thread starter Ed Edwards
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Ed Edwards
<img src=/Ed.gif>
IMHO this is Election:
Revelation 5:1-9 (TNIV = Today's New International Version):
Then I saw in the right hand of him who sat on the throne a scroll with writing on both sides and sealed with seven seals.
2 And I saw a mighty angel proclaiming in a loud voice, "Who is worthy to break the seals and open the scroll?"
3 But no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth could open the scroll or even look inside it.
4 I wept and wept because no one was found who was worthy to open the scroll or look inside.
5 Then one of the elders said to me, "Do not weep! See, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has triumphed. He is able to open the scroll and its seven seals."
6 Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain, standing in the center before the throne, encircled by the four living creatures and the elders. The Lamb had seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth.
7 He went and took the scroll from the right hand of him who sat on the throne.
8 And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of God's people.
9 And they sang a new song, saying: "You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, because you were slain, and with your blood you purchased for God members of every tribe and language and people and nation."
Messiah Yeshua the Lamb is whom
God elected to Save those who will be
savid. Because I accepted Jesus as my
Lord, He became my Savior - at the moment
of salvation - I Shared the Lamb's Election.
Jesus saved my soul and I shared His
election (I was unworthy but Jesus was
all worthy!).
Revelation 5:1-9 (TNIV = Today's New International Version):
Then I saw in the right hand of him who sat on the throne a scroll with writing on both sides and sealed with seven seals.
2 And I saw a mighty angel proclaiming in a loud voice, "Who is worthy to break the seals and open the scroll?"
3 But no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth could open the scroll or even look inside it.
4 I wept and wept because no one was found who was worthy to open the scroll or look inside.
5 Then one of the elders said to me, "Do not weep! See, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has triumphed. He is able to open the scroll and its seven seals."
6 Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain, standing in the center before the throne, encircled by the four living creatures and the elders. The Lamb had seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth.
7 He went and took the scroll from the right hand of him who sat on the throne.
8 And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of God's people.
9 And they sang a new song, saying: "You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, because you were slain, and with your blood you purchased for God members of every tribe and language and people and nation."
Messiah Yeshua the Lamb is whom
God elected to Save those who will be
savid. Because I accepted Jesus as my
Lord, He became my Savior - at the moment
of salvation - I Shared the Lamb's Election.
Jesus saved my soul and I shared His
election (I was unworthy but Jesus was
all worthy!).
Ed Edwards said:
The Messiah elected all of His own before the foundation of the world . None 'become' elect , they already are . They enter the world under the wrath of God as does everyone . However , the elect will be effectually called and savingly united to the Messiah in their lifetime .The Lord makes it happen .
Your words " God elected those who will be saved" need sme explanation . Because if by that you mean that people can 'will' to be saved you are mistaken . The Lamb ( also known as the Shepherd -- strange , but true ) came with the specific intention to save His sheep and no one else .
Yes , when the Lord saves our souls He is our Savior . That's rather basic .
Ed Edwards
<img src=/Ed.gif>
Dale-c said:
I'm simple, not complex.
Just read the OP -- it tells what my
point is: plain & simple. Thank you.
Jarthur001
Active Member
good point....Dale-c said:
Rippon said:
Thank you, Brother Rippon.
Well said.
And may I add, this effectual call and getting savingly united is all of the Spirit, apart from any human means.
Brother Bob
New Member
And all the scriptures that say you must believe, or believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved. Should of said; "when you believe, then will you be saved, even though you were aready saved before the foundation of the world. Who cares whether you want to believe or not, I say you will believe, and that is all I got to say on the matter. Its like a box of chocolates, you never know whether you are one of the elect or not, but if you are, then you are saved. (sarcasm)...........................
Brother Bob
New Member
That is a cop out and you know it. You do claim to be one of the elect before the foundation of the world and the "elect" are saved.Dale-c said:
Rippon; The Messiah elected all of His own before the foundation of the world . None 'become' elect , they already are . They enter the world under the wrath of God as does everyone . However , the elect will be effectually called and savingly united to the Messiah in their lifetime .The Lord makes it happen .
Why didn't you call Rippon's hand on this then??
Dale-c; Not quite sure what you mean here, but I do believe this will cause human action and even humans means (decreed by God) are used to bring about salvation.
God does use means to His ends.
BBob,:BangHead:
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BibleStudent
New Member
Matthew 13:44 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field.
Matthew 13:38 The field is the world; ...
1 Timothy 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Now we know that the scripture testifies “Revelation 22:18-19 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.”
Luke 19:10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.
Why seek with irresistible grace?
Hebrews 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
These that are spoken of are referred to as “sanctified” and yet they are definitely not saved
2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
These that are spoken of are referred to as “bought” and yet they are definitely not saved
My friend, who is teaching you the ways of truth? Scripture says in I John 2:27 "ye need not that any man teach you"
Ps 25:4
Shew me thy ways, O LORD; teach me thy paths.
Ps 25:5
Lead me in thy truth, and teach me: for thou art the God of my salvation; on thee do I wait all the day.
Ps 27:11
Teach me thy way, O LORD, and lead me in a plain path, because of mine enemies.
Ps 86:11
Teach me thy way, O LORD; I will walk in thy truth: unite my heart to fear thy name.
Ps 119:12
Blessed art thou, O LORD: teach me thy statutes.
Ps 119:26
I have declared my ways, and thou heardest me: teach me thy statutes.
Ps 119:33
HE. Teach me, O LORD, the way of thy statutes; and I shall keep it unto the end.
Ps 119:64
The earth, O LORD, is full of thy mercy: teach me thy statutes.
Ps 119:66
Teach me good judgment and knowledge: for I have believed thy commandments.
Ps 119:68
Thou art good, and doest good; teach me thy statutes.
Ps 119:108
Accept, I beseech thee, the freewill offerings of my mouth, O LORD, and teach me thy judgments.
Ps 119:124
Deal with thy servant according unto thy mercy, and teach me thy statutes.
Ps 119:135
Make thy face to shine upon thy servant; and teach me thy statutes.
Ps 143:10
Teach me to do thy will; for thou art my God: thy spirit is good; lead me into the land of uprightness.
Does God use men to teach? Absolutely but only while seeking God with your whole heart and without guile desirous to obtain His understanding of things will you escape deception. Proverbs 3:5-7 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil.
Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
1 Corinthians 3:18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.
Ephesians 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
A brother in Christ
Matthew 13:38 The field is the world; ...
1 Timothy 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Now we know that the scripture testifies “Revelation 22:18-19 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.”
Luke 19:10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.
Why seek with irresistible grace?
Hebrews 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
These that are spoken of are referred to as “sanctified” and yet they are definitely not saved
2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
These that are spoken of are referred to as “bought” and yet they are definitely not saved
My friend, who is teaching you the ways of truth? Scripture says in I John 2:27 "ye need not that any man teach you"
Ps 25:4
Shew me thy ways, O LORD; teach me thy paths.
Ps 25:5
Lead me in thy truth, and teach me: for thou art the God of my salvation; on thee do I wait all the day.
Ps 27:11
Teach me thy way, O LORD, and lead me in a plain path, because of mine enemies.
Ps 86:11
Teach me thy way, O LORD; I will walk in thy truth: unite my heart to fear thy name.
Ps 119:12
Blessed art thou, O LORD: teach me thy statutes.
Ps 119:26
I have declared my ways, and thou heardest me: teach me thy statutes.
Ps 119:33
HE. Teach me, O LORD, the way of thy statutes; and I shall keep it unto the end.
Ps 119:64
The earth, O LORD, is full of thy mercy: teach me thy statutes.
Ps 119:66
Teach me good judgment and knowledge: for I have believed thy commandments.
Ps 119:68
Thou art good, and doest good; teach me thy statutes.
Ps 119:108
Accept, I beseech thee, the freewill offerings of my mouth, O LORD, and teach me thy judgments.
Ps 119:124
Deal with thy servant according unto thy mercy, and teach me thy statutes.
Ps 119:135
Make thy face to shine upon thy servant; and teach me thy statutes.
Ps 143:10
Teach me to do thy will; for thou art my God: thy spirit is good; lead me into the land of uprightness.
Does God use men to teach? Absolutely but only while seeking God with your whole heart and without guile desirous to obtain His understanding of things will you escape deception. Proverbs 3:5-7 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil.
Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
1 Corinthians 3:18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.
Ephesians 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
A brother in Christ
Dale-c said:
Regeneration is a work of the Holy Spirit apart from human means. The gospel does not regenerate, and it will never regenerate.
However, the regenerate soul that hears the gospel message responds to it because he is already regenerate, and proof of his being an elect child of God is his taking action on the gospel call to repentance, faith, and belief.
The unregenerate will not repent, have Godly faith, and exhibit belief.
Is the gospel call the effectual call ?
It is not.
The Spirit's call, His voice, is the effectual call, not the preacher's voice.
Therefore, the man who professes to be a child of God, but lives like a child of hell, is a big question mark, since he has not acted on his responsibility towards his Savior.
I have not discarded human responsibility, but responsibility only exists where the responsibility is laid down.
Like Paul said:
"How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! But they have not all obeyed the gospel........"
I have concluded, from the many debates and argumentations I have participated in, and watched in the sidelines, that this entire confusion stems from misunderstanding and inability to distinghuish between being saved from the penalty of sin which is eternal in its character and alone is OF God, FROM God, and BY God, thru Jesus Christ the Messiah, and being saved from the fruits of sin which is unbelief, idolatry, theft, adultery, and so on, which is definitely a CHOICE thing, based on obedience, knowledge, instruction and understanding.
Eternal salvation is not the same as timely salvation.
The former is unconditional, the latter is conditional.
The former was planned in eternity past, executed in time but encompassing those born before the cross and after the cross, the latter is to be executed by the elect in time thru the preaching of the gospel, the instruction of the gospel, and is limited in scope to those who hear the gospel and therefore does not affect the eternal salvation of those who never hear the gospel.
Eternal salvation is not the same as timely salvation.
The former is unconditional, the latter is conditional.
The former was planned in eternity past, executed in time but encompassing those born before the cross and after the cross, the latter is to be executed by the elect in time thru the preaching of the gospel, the instruction of the gospel, and is limited in scope to those who hear the gospel and therefore does not affect the eternal salvation of those who never hear the gospel.
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Brother Bob
New Member
1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
1 Timothy 2:3-6 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
1 John 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified [him] not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
BBob,
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
1 Timothy 2:3-6 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
1 John 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified [him] not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
How can it die if it is already dead.
BBob,
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Ed Edwards
<img src=/Ed.gif>
Brother Bob said:And all the scriptures that say you must believe, or believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved. Should of said; "when you believe, then will you be saved, even though you were aready saved before the foundation of the world. Who cares whether you want to believe or not, I say you will believe, and that is all I got to say on the matter. Its like a box of chocolates, you never know whether you are one of the elect or not, but if you are, then you are saved. (sarcasm)...........................
Exactly Brother Bob -- Preach it!
I am saved,
I am being saved,
I will be saved.
Yep:
1. I am saved
I was justified in April 1952 by Jesus
-- Justified saved by Jesus
2. I am being saved
I am being scantified by Jesus on 24 December 2007
-- Scantified Saved by Jesus
3. I will be saved.
At the pretribulation rapture2 (Resurarection1
followed imediately by a Rapture1) I will be Glorified
-- Glorified saved by Jesus
Ed Edwards
<img src=/Ed.gif>
I am elected for salvation,
I am being elected for salvation,
I will be elected for salvation.
Yep:
1. I am elected for salvation in Jesus
I was elected in Jesus before the world was cast down.
I was elected in Jesus by His Sacrifice at Calvary.
I wes elected in Jesus personally in April 1952
I was justified in April 1952 by Jesus
-- Justified saved by Jesus per my election in Jesus
2. I am being elected for salvation in Jesus
I am being scantified by Jesus on 24 December 2007
-- Scantified Saved by Jesus per my election in Jesus
3. I will be elected for salvation in Jesus
At the pretribulation rapture2 (Resurarection1
followed imediately by a Rapture1) I will be Glorified
-- Glorified saved by Jesus per my election in Jesus
Not confusing at all.
Just read the Bible and just add
the Spiritual Facts together
'dividing the Word' =
'multiplying the Word' =
'subtracting* the Word' =
'adding the Word' =
Dispensation of God =
God's Economy.
* note: 'subtracting' put in for those
who say you can be saved by Jesus,
lost by Jesus; up, down; like yo-yo
I am being elected for salvation,
I will be elected for salvation.
Yep:
1. I am elected for salvation in Jesus
I was elected in Jesus before the world was cast down.
I was elected in Jesus by His Sacrifice at Calvary.
I wes elected in Jesus personally in April 1952
I was justified in April 1952 by Jesus
-- Justified saved by Jesus per my election in Jesus
2. I am being elected for salvation in Jesus
I am being scantified by Jesus on 24 December 2007
-- Scantified Saved by Jesus per my election in Jesus
3. I will be elected for salvation in Jesus
At the pretribulation rapture2 (Resurarection1
followed imediately by a Rapture1) I will be Glorified
-- Glorified saved by Jesus per my election in Jesus
Not confusing at all.
Just read the Bible and just add
the Spiritual Facts together
'dividing the Word' =
'multiplying the Word' =
'subtracting* the Word' =
'adding the Word' =
Dispensation of God =
God's Economy.
* note: 'subtracting' put in for those
who say you can be saved by Jesus,
lost by Jesus; up, down; like yo-yo
Please tell me how it is a cop out?
ANd, no I don't know it because it isn't.
Once again, the elect are the ones that will be drawn to a saving faith.
The gospel goes to the world in general.
Those who are elect will be regenerated and will believe.
All who believe will be saved.
This is all rather simple. I don't see how you can keep misunderstanding it constantly?