Bye TULIP, Hi GRACE

[TCGreek]

Dale,

Good question! :thumbs:

 

[Ed Edwards]

Could you please cite a reference to election in the Bible that is future tense?

Do you agree?

We are elected in Jesus to salvation in Jesus.

 

[Dale-c]

Do you agree?

We are elected in Jesus to salvation in Jesus.

I do not agree that that is a valid scripture reference.
Once again, please show me scriptural evidence for future election unto salvation.
Thanks
DC

 

[Ed Edwards]

Could you please cite a reference to election in the Bible that is future tense?

Do you agree?

We are elected in Jesus to salvation in Jesus.

I do not claim that statement is a scriputre.
I want to know if you agree with the statement or
not. If you will say YES or NO, that will save me
lots of my Valuable Time which I have devoted to
God. I can show you lots of scriptures in the
future tense that show salvation is in the fulture.
If Salvation is in the future, IMHO then election
is in the future also.

Not all will get the same milage though.

 

[Dale-c]

If Salvation is in the future, IMHO then election
is in the future also.

And IMHO, your opinion is unBiblical.

 

[Brother Bob]

Please tell me how it is a cop out?
ANd, no I don't know it because it isn't.

Once again, the elect are the ones that will be drawn to a saving faith.
The gospel goes to the world in general.
Those who are elect will be regenerated and will believe.
All who believe will be saved.

This is all rather simple. I don't see how you can keep misunderstanding it constantly?

You said that your salvation was decreed by God and I quote;

Dale-c; Post #49 Not quite sure what you mean here, but I do believe this will cause human action and even humans means (decreed by God) are used to bring about salvation.
God does use means to His ends.

Now, if you are saying that your salvation was decreed by God "when you believed" then we are on the same page, but I suspect (knowing you), that you mean that God decreed your salvation before the foundation of the world. If I am wrong, then I am pleased that I am wrong in this case, but I suspect I am right and that you believe "that God decreed your salvation before the foundation of the world".

Because I believe God "decreed" that all who believe shall be saved.

So you see, you did say that you were saved before the foundation of the world. I think you would like to say it both ways, but its either you were, before the foundation or when you believed, which one is it????

BBob,

 

[Ed Edwards]

And IMHO, your opinion is unBiblical.

You, Sir, do not even understand my opinion.
You cannot know if it is Biblical or Unbiblical until
you understand it. As for your opinion, Sir, it
is hard to argue against cause it is such a
fast moving target

Merry Christmas!

P.S. you do understand I believe election is an
ongoing process with past, present, and future
components and not a one time process?

(Changed to get more of the words spelled right)

 

[Ed Edwards]

Amen, Brother Brother Bob -- Preach it! :thumbs:

You, Sir, are just so much better explaining it
than I am. You are always RIGHT ON!

 

[Ed Edwards]

Speaking to the Apostiles (Matt 10:1)

Mat 10:22 (Geneva Bible, 1599 Edition):
And yee shall be hated of all men for my Name:
but he that endureth to the end, he shall be saued.

There is a future component to
salvation. IMHO Election to Salvation also has
a future component.

 

[Dale-c]

P.S. you do understand I believe electrion is an
ongoing process with past, present, and future
components and not a one time process?

I do understand what you believe. I do not understand how you came up with it.
Please explain.
Thanks

 

[Dale-c]

Now, if you are saying that your salvation was decreed by God "when you believed" then we are on the same page, but I suspect (knowing you), that you mean that God decreed your salvation before the foundation of the world. If I am wrong, then I am pleased that I am wrong in this case, but I suspect I am right and that you believe "that God decreed your salvation before the foundation of the world".

Because I believe God "decreed" that all who believe shall be saved.

So you see, you did say that you were saved before the foundation of the world. I think you would like to say it both ways, but its either you were, before the foundation or when you believed, which one is it????

Ok, let me explain once again:

We are not SAVED before the foundation of the world.
We are elected UNTO salvation then.

The president gets elected in November but he is not president at that point.
Now, we know that aside from a major catastrophe he will SOMEDAY be president.

Election is God's choosing.

If you are elect, you will someday repent.
God will overcome your unbelief and you will repent.
But you aren't a Christian until you do.

 

[Brother Bob]

Ok, let me explain once again:

We are not SAVED before the foundation of the world.
We are elected UNTO salvation then.

The president gets elected in November but he is not president at that point.
Now, we know that aside from a major catastrophe he will SOMEDAY be president.

Election is God's choosing.

If you are elect, you will someday repent.
God will overcome your unbelief and you will repent.
But you aren't a Christian until you do.

I always thought God's word was a sure thing, not matter when it was decreed.

We are elected into Salvation, but you are not saved? Is there some way you could lose it after God elected you unto Salvation??

Come on Dale-c, you know that is double talk.

BBob,

 

[Ed Edwards]

God is a tri-unity, Part of His unknownable Nature is
that He does things in Triplicate Toward One Purpose.

So it only makes sence that 'Election' has
three parts (for the saved person):
Past, Present, and Future.

// Election is God's choosing.//

Amen, Brohter Dale-c -- Preach it!

 

[Brother Bob]

God is a tri-unity, Part of His unknownable Nature is
that He does things in Triplicate Toward One Purpose.

So it only makes sence that 'Election' has
three parts (for the saved person):
Past, Present, and Future.

// Election is God's choosing.//

Amen, Brohter Dale-c -- Preach it!

God is also Omnipresent and can see all three at the same time. Therefore predestination to God is not what man makes it out to be.

BBob,

 

[LeBuick]

God is also Omnipresent and can see all three at the same time. Therefore predestination to God is not what man makes it out to be.

BBob,

Very good point... :thumbs:

 

[Jarthur001]

God is also Omnipresent and can see all three at the same time. Therefore predestination to God is not what man makes it out to be.

BBob,

What does God make it out to be?

 

[Brother Bob]

What does God make it out to be?

On Belief...........

God’s omniscience and omnipresence
God knows the results of our decisions, not through absolute prediction but rather because He can already observe those results
In time and all that exist in time, it is all present with God at all time. He see at all time what is and what was and what will be when we are called to Heaven. God is outside of time. He can work in time when He wants but He sees all things and already saw you believe before you were born, matter of fact, before the foundation of the World. God is Sovereign and it does not take away for that for Him to make the creature subject to vanity. It was His choice to do so and we had nothing to do with it whatsoever. Again, because He knows the end from the begining and is outside of time. It is not great thing for Him to see me believe when He sees all at once for with Him, time does not matter. Before the earth was created there was not time, and when this world come to an end, time will cease again. Time was created for man and not God for He sees all.

 

[Jarthur001]

On Belief...........

I do not follow.

You say God sees election as belief?

 

[Brother Bob]

I do not follow.

You say God sees election as belief?

I say election is because of belief.

God did His part when he created man. He never willed that man to believe or not believe. He never willed that man to sin and He never willed that man to righteous. God did will His Son to die for sin and those who believed that Jesus is the Son of God and died for sin would be saved by His Grace. The problem is, when did God know this? He is without time so He always sees man believe, before the foundation of the world, now and in the end. God see all in a moment, so He knows who to "call" because He sees who believes.

Those who believe:

Rom 8:29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.



Rom 8:30Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

 

[Jarthur001]

God’s omniscience and omnipresence

all knowing....
in all time frames.

God knows the results of our decisions, not through absolute prediction but rather because He can already observe those results

Does He know because he observed the results?

In time and all that exist in time, it is all present with God at all time.

I'll go beyond this. Nothing other then God would exist, if Time did not exist. Also, if time was not...this would mean God was not omnipresence but rather just present.

He see at all time what is and what was and what will be when we are called to Heaven.

I agree for God is indeed in each time frame. But what needs to be ask is this. Did God know this because he observed the results or did He already know this before he observed the results? When did God know what He knows?

God is outside of time.

Not really. This is only part true. Going by Gods Holy Word, please state how creation took place?

He can work in time when He wants but He sees all things and already saw you believe before you were born, matter of fact, before the foundation of the World.

But did God know of me before He saw me born?

God is Sovereign and it does not take away for that for Him to make the creature subject to vanity.

I agree with this

It was His choice to do so and we had nothing to do with it whatsoever.

Agreed.

Again, because He knows the end from the begining and is outside of time. It is not great thing for Him to see me believe when He sees all at once for with Him, time does not matter.

Agreed

Before the earth was created there was not time, and when this world come to an end, time will cease again.

Agreed

Time was created for man and not God for He sees all. Because He sees does not mean he decrees.

Disagree!!

Time was part of creation and all things were made for Him not mankind. Time is a measurement of change. That is all time is. The reason time will be no longer, is at that point nothing will change.

Why would you say God does not decree? Many many verses say he does. I need a few verses showing God does not please.