Bye TULIP, Hi GRACE

[Jarthur001]

Rom 8:29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.



Rom 8:30Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

When God wrote His Holy Word, when do you think God wanted mankind to think he predestined them? In other words....if God wanted for man to believe it was when they believed, would God use the word "fore" meaning before hand? If God wanted to just say believers were destined to Heaven...could He not have said that? Why do you think God wanted us to know it was "pre"...or before?

 

[Brother Bob]

all knowing....
in all time frames.



Does He know because he observed the results?

Not because He saw, but because He sees.


I'll go beyond this. Nothing other then God would exist, if Time did not exist. Also, if time was not...this would mean God was not omnipresence but rather just present.

I really can't say what existed before time. I suspect the Son and Holy Ghost were there also, but these three are one. So I will not disagree with you.



I agree for God is indeed in each time frame. But what needs to be ask is this. Did God know this because he observed the results or did He already know this before he observed the results? When did God know what He knows?
Beginning, now and the end.

Not really. This is only part true. Going by Gods Holy Word, please state how creation took place?


But did God know of me before He saw me born?

He sees you born now, before and in the end.



I agree with this


Agreed.


Agreed


Agreed



Disagree!!

Time was part of creation and all things were made for Him not mankind. Time is a measurement of change. That is all time is. The reason time will be no longer, is at that point nothing will change.

God had not need of time, other than for the man He created. You are right that it was all created for Him, but secondary for the use of Man.

Why would you say God does not decree? Many many verses say he does. I need a few verses showing God does not please.

If I said that I misspoke. He does decree when we believe and predestinate us to be conformed to the image of His Son.

 

[Jarthur001]

Rom 8:30Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Do you believe this verse list the order of events that happen to the believer?

 

[Brother Bob]

Do you believe this verse list the order of events that happen to the believer?

Yes, with the glorification already to the inward man and in the resurrection for the outward man or fleshly man, with God seeing all of it now as we speak. The justification is by the blood of Jesus also to the inward man. I guess I would say it is all to the inward man James. The outward man becomes a crucified man.

BBob,

 

[Brother Bob]

When God wrote His Holy Word, when do you think God wanted mankind to think he predestined them? In other words....if God wanted for man to believe it was when they believed, would God use the word "fore" meaning before hand? If God wanted to just say believers were destined to Heaven...could He not have said that? Why do you think God wanted us to know it was "pre"...or before?

As I said He sees all now, so He could use fore, but would not change anything with us, because He is not bound by time, so fore is now to Him, as is end.

BBob,

 

[PK]

A rather unedifying post.
We do not claim that you are saved before the foundation of the world, only that you are elected to salvation.
You can't be saved unless you have something the be saved from.

If I were part of the elected, my name was written in the book before I was actually saved, right? So, explain to me again your point?

 

[Brother Bob]

If I were part of the elected, my name was written in the book before I was actually saved, right? So, explain to me again your point?

Very good PK..........

BBob,

 

[Jarthur001]

If I said that I misspoke. He does decree when we believe and predestinate us to be conformed to the image of His Son.

What I'm getting at Bob is this...

It is clear God made time as part of His creation. It is also clear as He works in His creation, therefore it is that He works in time. Jesus was raised from the dead in 3 days. Those days were made of time. God made the world, and this took place in time. He did not make the world in 1976. He does not look at the world as being made in 1976. It was made years before 1976. These years are time. Each year is measured by 365.25 spins of the earth around the sun. That is all time is. When Christ was raised from the dead, the moon had went around the earth 3 times. Omnipresence means God was there on the 1st spin the 2nd spin and the last spin. He is there each time it spins. He always will be there each time it spins. God knows full well about time and uses time.

But omnipresence really has nothing to do with what God knows. God knows for He is God. As I said before, if God had not made the earth, there would be no time. This would mean God was not omnipresence. But He is still God, for God knows all things.

But...if you remove that He knows all things, this would remove the fact He is God. So God knows and is in all time for He made the earth that spins and makes time. We can never say God did not know all things. However, we can says God has not always been omnipresence. God was just present before creation for time did not exist...therefore He calls himself the self-existing one.

 

[Jarthur001]

If I were part of the elected, my name was written in the book before I was actually saved, right? So, explain to me again your point?

what book?

 

[Jarthur001]

If I were part of the elected, my name was written in the book before I was actually saved, right? So, explain to me again your point?

And I may add....

Election is not dales point...its Gods work. Do you believe His word, or find need to change it?

 

[PK]

Do you believe this verse list the order of events that happen to the believer?

I Do!

God by His foreknowledge has predestinated all who believe in the Lord Jesus Christ 'to be conformed to the image of His Son'. Predestination is never to Heaven or Hell but always to special privileges in and with Christ.

 

[Brother Bob]

What I'm getting at Bob is this...

It is clear God made time as part of His creation. It is also clear as He works in His creation, therefore it is that He works in time. Jesus was raised from the dead in 3 days. Those days were made of time. God made the world, and this took place in time. He did not make the world in 1976. He does not look at the world as being made in 1976. It was made years before 1976. These years are time. Each year is measured by 365.25 spins of the earth around the sun. That is all time is. When Christ was raised from the dead, the moon had went around the earth 3 times. Omnipresence means God was there on the 1st spin the 2nd spin and the last spin. He is there each time it spins. He always will be there each time it spins. God knows full well about time and uses time.

But omnipresence really has nothing to do with what God knows. God knows for He is God. As I said before, if God had not made the earth, there would be no time. This would mean God was not omnipresence. But He is still God, for God knows all things.

But...if you remove that He knows all things, this would remove the fact He is God. So God knows and is in all time for He made the earth that spins and makes time. We can never say God did not know all things. However, we can says God has not always been omnipresence. God was just present before creation for time did not exist...therefore He calls himself the self-existing one.

Well James, if omnipresence means time only and not existance, I can agree with you, but would omnipresence mean existance also as the King of Salem who had no beginning or no end. Also, the first day, when God started creating the earth, there was a period there was no sun or moon and the earth was void, so would there have been time then or just existance?

Sometimes we get in to some real "deep" stuff that I wonder if we are supposed to have a meaning to it, don't you............

BBob,

 

[Jarthur001]

Yes, with the glorification already to the inward man and in the resurrection for the outward man or fleshly man, with God seeing all of it now as we speak. The justification is by the blood of Jesus also to the inward man. I guess I would say it is all to the inward man James. The outward man becomes a crucified man.

BBob,

If so..

What do you fell "called" means?

 

[PK]

what book?

Rev. 13:8 and 17:8

 

[Jarthur001]

Sometimes we get in to some real "deep" stuff that I wonder if we are supposed to have a meaning to it, don't you............

BBob,

maybe so Bob...

I'm about done tonight anyway. I need to do some Bible study.

Peace to you and yours Bob.

Good night...James

 

[Jarthur001]

Rev. 13:8 and 17:8

oops...sorry...didn't see this

Yes..I know of the passage. I want you to say the name of the book.

Thanks...

In Christ...James

I'm off for now..see ya in the morn.

 

[Ed Edwards]

And a Merry Christmas to all & a good night!

 

[Brother Bob]

If so..

What do you fell "called" means?

My honest answer James is like when I was praying for forgiveness of my sins and I believe in a travail from nature to Grace. In other words I believe there is a time of praying and waiting for to hear God say in His way of talking to us, your sins which are many, I freely forgive, come on home son.

Now there is a drawing to all men. But this call out of the world, of which He said I have chosen you out of the world, is the call it is talking about here. We can only believe, repent but it take God to do the saving and if he never calls, we have went to far in sin and been turn over to a reprovate mind, to believe a lie and be damned.

I suppose I opened a box here, that will take me a while to defend with scripture, but its what I believe. I can't stand this "sinners prayer" thing for salvation.

BBob,

 

[Brother Bob]

And a Merry Christmas to all & a good night!

Merry Christmas to you also Ed and your family.

BBob,

 

[PK]

oops...sorry...didn't see this

Yes..I know of the passage. I want you to say the name of the book.

Thanks...

In Christ...James

I'm off for now..see ya in the morn.

Explain these passages:

Exodus 32:33- And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.

Psalm 69:28- Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous.

Rev 22:19 -And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book.

I always thought predestination was a sure thing? Sleep well!