Can Believers Go One Day Without Sinning?

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Prove it Amy. Prove that it cannot mean 'mature' in the verse Biblicist posted by Paul.

Tell God that he did not mean 'perfect' when He spoke of Job.

 

[DHK]

Is your last post spam? It certainly did not have a basis of reasoning other than 'DHK' thinks your confused.

Tell us the true meaning of 1Cor 10:13 DHK. I am listening.

God is able to do anything. God is always faithful. That doesn't mean you are. You face many tests and trials: covetousness, lust, lies, evil thoughts, even posts that you post in frustration, posts that misrepresent another person, posts that slander another person, (slander is so serious it can be a court/legal matter). All of this is sin. God is faithful. That doesn't mean we are faithful. We must be faithful to God.

Example: Is God going to deliver a man from alcoholism if he is in the bar drinking his beer?

 

[Amy.G]

Prove it Amy. Prove that it cannot mean 'mature' in the verse Biblicist posted by Paul.

Tell God that he did not mean 'perfect' when He spoke of Job.

CONTEXT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

From Albert Barnes Commentay:
Or, rather, those who would be perfect; or who are aiming at perfection. It can hardly be supposed that the apostle would address them as already perfect, when he had just said of himself that he had not attained to that state.

Philippians 3:15
New King James Version (NKJV)
15 Therefore let us, as many as are mature, have this mind; and if in anything you think otherwise, God will reveal even this to you.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

DHK: Example: Is God going to deliver a man from alcoholism if he is in the bar drinking his beer?

HP: Is God going to deliver one from sin who refuses to believe the Scriptures, His very promises, that He will not allow them to be tempted above that which we are able to resist, but will with the temptation make a way of escape that we may be able to bear it?

In such a case, is it that they cannot be delivered or that they have chosen not to be delivered?

 

[DHK]

Prove it Amy. Prove that it cannot mean 'mature' in the verse Biblicist posted by Paul.

Tell God that he did not mean 'perfect' when He spoke of Job.

Job 1:1 There was a man in the land of Uz whose name was Job; and this man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God and abstained from evil.

Job 1:1 There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job. That man was blameless and upright, and one who feared God, and turned away from evil. (WEB)


tam tawm
from 8552; complete; usually (morally) pious; specifically, gentle, dear:—coupled together, perfect, plain, undefiled, upright.
--The word perfect is a minor meaning, one of the last ones given. Complete is a major meaning. It is the first one given.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

And what does that prove DHK? Go ahead and run that past God and get back to us.

 

[DHK]

HP: Is God going to deliver one from sin who refuses to believe the Scriptures, His very promises, that He will not allow them to be tempted above that which we are able to resist, but will with the temptation make a way of escape that we may be able to bear it?

In such a case, is it that they cannot be delivered or that they have chosen not to be delivered?

Note some of your conversations with the Biblicist, especially the one over Phil.3. You continually misrepresent his position. You don't listen. And so it goes on and on. What do we call that? Any number of things: stubbornness, argumentative, pride, somewhat and sometimes slanderous, etc. But God is able to deliver you, but you don't want to be delivered. You continue in your bad attitudes, not listening to sound exegesis.

 

[DHK]

And what does that prove DHK? Go ahead and run that past God and get back to us.

It proves that you are not right even as Amy has just showed you. But like your attitude to Biblicist, you are not listening to her either.

 

[DaChaser1]

CONTEXT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

From Albert Barnes Commentay:
Or, rather, those who would be perfect; or who are aiming at perfection. It can hardly be supposed that the apostle would address them as already perfect, when he had just said of himself that he had not attained to that state.

Philippians 3:15
New King James Version (NKJV)
15 Therefore let us, as many as are mature, have this mind; and if in anything you think otherwise, God will reveal even this to you.

example:

be ye perfect as your heavenly father is perfect!

Context in this saying though concerns jesus addressing judging rightly!

MANY take this meaning to saying jesus requires us to attain "spiritual perfection" to get/show wea re saved!

 

[Amy.G]

HP, do you have a pastor you can discuss this with? Because this honestly is the milk of the word and you should know these things by now. What you are claiming is false teaching. You are not speaking of orthodox Christian theology. You have been led astray by someone. As long as you live in corrupted human flesh you will sin. Yes, God provides a way out, but you will not ALWAYS take it. We have been saved from the penalty of sin, but we will still sin to our shame. However we will not be punished eternally for our sins because Christ took that punishment for us. He will however chastise us here on earth.

Anyone who claims to be able to maintain sinlessness is nothing more than a Pharisee, a white washed tomb.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

HP, do you have a pastor you can discuss this with? Because this honestly is the milk of the word and you should know these things by now. What you are claiming is false teaching. You are not speaking of orthodox Christian theology. You have been led astray by someone. As long as you live in corrupted human flesh you will sin. Yes, God provides a way out, but you will not ALWAYS take it. We have been saved from the penalty of sin, but we will still sin to our shame. However we will not be punished eternally for our sins because Christ took that punishment for us. He will however chastise us here on earth.

Anyone who claims to be able to maintain sinlessness is nothing more than a Pharisee, a white washed tomb.

I wish we could have a discussion without someone dragging that "not orthodox Christian theology" thing into it. Orthodoxy is in the eye of the beholder. The EOC and RCC which have been around for some time longer than Baptists would say that you do not have orthodox Christian theology.

And there are many holiness groups that agree with HP and Moriah. I don't agree with them, but I'm not going to lay the heretical or unorthodox charge against them.

Obviously there is scripture to support the many and diverse views we see on this forum; otherwise, people wouldn't hold to their doctrines, and there wouldn't be so many denominations.

So, let's try to understand where the other is coming from instead of hurling pejorative epithets -- something I've been guilty of doing myself, and which is ample evidence that I myself have not attained to perfection and sinlessness.

 

[mandym]

I wish we could have a discussion without someone dragging that "not orthodox Christian theology" thing into it. Orthodoxy is in the eye of the beholder. The EOC and RCC which have been around for some time longer than Baptists would say that you do not have orthodox Christian theology.

Of course you do.

 

[DHK]

I wish we could have a discussion without someone dragging that "not orthodox Christian theology" thing into it. Orthodoxy is in the eye of the beholder. The EOC and RCC which have been around for some time longer than Baptists would say that you do not have orthodox Christian theology.

Even the RCC, which I detest so greatly, even to the point of considering them a cult, believes in some orthodox Christian doctrine like the trinity. They also believe in original sin, the depravity of man, and that that depravity is passed on from one generation to another, or that it is inherited. In other words they (long ago) repudiated the heresy of Pelagianism, as did most of Christianity.

And there are many holiness groups that agree with HP and Moriah. I don't agree with them, but I'm not going to lay the heretical or unorthodox charge against them.

What Christian groups are totally Pelagian in their statement of faith?

Obviously there is scripture to support the many and diverse views we see on this forum; otherwise, people wouldn't hold to their doctrines, and there wouldn't be so many denominations.

First, if HP gives the name, website (if any) or provides the statement of faith of the Southern Baptist Church that he attends I can guarantee you that they do not hold to the tenets of Pelagius, or the doctrines that he has been espousing on this board. They are a long way from Biblical. People are sincere, and sincerely wrong. There are not opposing views of Scripture. There is right and wrong. Someone is wrong. And there are many wrong views presented on this board.

So, let's try to understand where the other is coming from instead of hurling pejorative epithets -- something I've been guilty of doing myself, and which is ample evidence that I myself have not attained to perfection and sinlessness.

Nobody has attained to sinlessness. And those that claim that they have are deceived. They need to know the truth, and their eyes need to be opened to the truth. The Bible says (when they make that claim that: "they are calling Christ a liar and His Word is not in them" (1John 1:10).
Thus it is a serious thing to make a statement of sinlessness. It is heretical. To call Christ a liar is blasphemous.

 

[Amy.G]

Obviously there is scripture to support the many and diverse views we see on this forum; otherwise, people wouldn't hold to their doctrines, and there wouldn't be so many denominations.

Just because someone holds to a certain doctrine does not mean it is a valid doctrine. In Paul's day there was a group teaching that Gentiles had to be circumcised in order to become Christians. They had wrong doctrine and Paul exposed them for it. We are to contend for the faith once delivered to the saints by the apostles. We build on the foundation they laid only.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

Of course you do.

Ah, so good to hear from the prince of insults. I was wondering what took you so long to get here. Let me enlighten you to a fact: There are billions of Christians around the world who would believe that you hold to unorthodox Christian theology, so get off your moral, self-righteous high horse.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

Even the RCC, which I detest so greatly, even to the point of considering them a cult, believes in some orthodox Christian doctrine like the trinity. They also believe in original sin, the depravity of man, and that that depravity is passed on from one generation to another, or that it is inherited. In other words they (long ago) repudiated the heresy of Pelagianism, as did most of Christianity.
What Christian groups are totally Pelagian in their statement of faith?
First, if HP gives the name, website (if any) or provides the statement of faith of the Southern Baptist Church that he attends I can guarantee you that they do not hold to the tenets of Pelagius, or the doctrines that he has been espousing on this board. They are a long way from Biblical. People are sincere, and sincerely wrong. There are not opposing views of Scripture. There is right and wrong. Someone is wrong. And there are many wrong views presented on this board.
Nobody has attained to sinlessness. And those that claim that they have are deceived. They need to know the truth, and their eyes need to be opened to the truth. The Bible says (when they make that claim that: "they are calling Christ a liar and His Word is not in them" (1John 1:10).
Thus it is a serious thing to make a statement of sinlessness. It is heretical. To call Christ a liar is blasphemous.

You don't have to be a Pelagian to believe what HP and Moriah do. The Church of the Nazarene believes it -- I am talking about perfectionism and entire sanctification being attainable in this life. And they base it on scripture and experience. It's like the Pentecostals; they had an experience and went to the NT to see if it could be explained and to help them understand it.

Yes, someone is wrong, but who? Only God knows that.

If Pelagianism is heretical, then so is Augustinianism. The EOC holds to neither, and I believe their position is correct on this, as is that of the Anabaptists and early Celtic Church before the Synod of Whitby.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

Just because someone holds to a certain doctrine does not mean it is a valid doctrine. In Paul's day there was a group teaching that Gentiles had to be circumcised in order to become Christians. They had wrong doctrine and Paul exposed them for it. We are to contend for the faith once delivered to the saints by the apostles. We build on the foundation they laid only.

True, but every denomination believes they are doing exactly that and can point to scriptures that they are convinced supports them.

 

[steaver]

Or maybe they are saying that Paul says that he sins but he fights it daily and so follow that example. Don't love and embrace sin but instead fight it daily.

I can give the example of me with my riding. I see near perfection in top riders and horses and know that is my goal but every time I ride, I make mistakes as does my horse. Do I allow those mistakes and keep doing them anyway? No. Yes I will most likely do them again because I need to train myself to overcome my body's imperfections for the sport but I work at decreasing those mistakes. Hopefully one day I will be able to overcome my leg and have it strong and still, staying in the right place but for now, I correct it regularly because it strays to where it should not be. As I train, my leg gets better and better but most likely, I will always struggle with it. In reality, I will also never be as good as those to riders but that doesn't mean that I won't keep striving towards that goal and fight the mistakes I make each time I ride.

It is the same way with my walk with Christ. I may sin less as I mature in the faith and ipunderstand myself more but I also know myself well enough to know that I will never be perfect until I am in heaven. But I don't embrace my sin - i fight it daily but I am not dumb enough to think that I can ever be perfect in this life. Only One was ever perfect on earth - even for a whole day.

Great analogy sister! :thumbsup:

 

[mandym]

Ah, so good to hear from the prince of insults. I was wondering what took you so long to get here. Let me enlighten you to a fact: There are billions of Christians around the world who would believe that you hold to unorthodox Christian theology, so get off your moral, self-righteous high horse.

And that is the authority for your statement? Also you know what the number of these people are? The fact is some of the views you have are not valid, not orthodox, and are not scriptural. There are millions of atheists who would deny scripture at all but I do not hold them as an authority on the subject either. You hold to your views because you have your own moral code outside of God. You do not like penal substitution that is fine. But do not expect that Christians are going to just accept your unbiblical view as a legitimate position.

 

[steaver]

HP: A false allegation (lie) due to the fact you are not my judge and have nothing whatsoever to prove your false allegations by. When are you going to stop lying, saying things concerning the daily lives of others you know nothing about?

Actually HP, you sin almost everytime you enter into one of these debates with your bearing of false witness and with your wrong unkind attitude. So we do have proof you sin at least almost every day you debate here on the BB. I see you misrepresent other's views many times, that is bearing a false witness.