Featured Can Believers Go One Day Without Sinning?

A question for Moriah and HP,

You very well know the commandment "thou shall not bear a false witness". So tell us why you cannot stop committing this sin with the help of the Holy Spirit??? You keep preaching that we can choose to stop, so why can't you choose to stop this sin?

 

And I state your post right back at you, accuser, with slight modification:

The fact is some of the views you have are not valid, not orthodox, and are not scriptural. There are millions of atheists who would deny scripture at all but I do not hold them as an authority on the subject either. You hold to your views because you have your own moral code outside of God. You like penal substitution that is fine. But do not expect that Christians are going to just accept your unbiblical view as a legitimate position.

 

If HP and Moriah believe the basic tenets of Pelagianism, the what does that make them?
If I spoke in tongues and believed there was a second blessing, what would that make me?
It would make in the very least, part of the Charismatic movement. What denomination is irrelevant.
Likewise, the denomination is irrelevant with HP and Moriah. They believe the basic tenets of Pelagianism, something that not even the church HP attends does not believe.

Do they also believe the other two tenets? Perhaps, I don't know.

One cannot have an honest approach to Scripture and believe these things. Why do you think that Pelagianism was deemed heresy as early as the fifth century, not only by Christianity in general but also by the RCC?

There are many doctrines that are very clear in the Word of God.

That is like saying: If salvation by works is heretical then salvation by faith is heretical too. Nonsense.
I don't hold to everything Augustine believes; in fact very little would I agree with. But I cannot deny the trinity which he believes, neither the Biblical doctrine of the depravity of man (although his version of it may not agree with mine).

I am not sure what they hold to, so I cannot comment. I know what the Bible teaches, and that is my authority. Not the catechism of any church.

 

So now you resort to pitting Paul against Paul instead of dealing with the obvious meaning of Philip. 3:12-14.

So you have Paul denying he has "attained" being "perfect" but then have him directly contradicting himself in verse 15??????

You lack common sense. The internal context of Philippians 3:12-14 proves he is referring to the sinless state he will eventual obtain in glorification. Just plain common sense dictates that this is obvious. However, since you lack common sense, I will probably have to spell it out and prove it by the phrases he chooses to use in those verses!

In verse 15 he is really cracking a joke against people like you! Those who think they can attain perfection or sinlessness. Those who are that MENTALLY IMMATURE God has ways to reveal to them they have not attained (their spouse for instance, their friends, etc.). The term "perfect" refers to the "mind" here "be otherwise minded" and refers to MATURE thinking! This meaning can be clearly seen by the use of the same word in Hebrews 5:12-14


Heb. 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age,[Gr. teleios] even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

The context of Hebrews 5:12-14 should obviously lead anyone with common sense to see it is found in a context of maturity and yet in the very next verse the very same word "teleios" is translated "perfect"

Heb. 6:1 ¶ Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection []Gr. Teleios];

However, you do not have enough common sense or maturity to see that just like Philippians 3:15 that Hebrews 6:1 is again speaking of MATURING or else he would not have to say "let us go on" if we have "attained"!!!

Philippians 3:15 is directed expressly at people like you that do not have enough common sense or spiritual maturity to understand they cannot "attain" being "perfect" as their "mind" has not reached being "perfect" in the sense of MATURE understanding but you are like those in Hebrews 5:12-14 "babes" not "skillful in the Word" but IMMATURE in their UNDERSTANDING of Scriptures.

 

Sorry but penal substitution is orthodox as are all of my views.

 

I did not bear false witness to anyone.

 

You are an outright lying hypocrit and Post #90 under the thread "Nine Gifts of the Spirit" documents your lies!

 

This is a lie. You have many times. Thus what you have posted is bearing false witness or lying.

 

You lying again!

First, just as I said DHK had already admitted that the sign gifts were restricted to Christ and the apostles and I quote:

POST #23 - "They were "the signs of an apostle." They authenticated the apostle and the apostle's message, were given during a time that revelation was being given. Now is not that time." DHK

POST #30 - "They were sign gifts of the Apostles. They verified the message of the Apostles, and of the Apostles themselves.

"...confirmed to us by those that heard him...by signs, wonders...and by gifts of the Holy Spirit."

Those that heard him were the Apostles. They testified of the works of the Lord by the gifts of the Holy Spirit which were given to them. There are no Apostles today, hence no supernatural gifts today" - DHK

POST #62 - And Christ never commanded us to do miracles. There is no verse in the Bible where Christ commands us to do miracles. Can you point to one - DHK

So you are lying about DHK as well, because he did formerly admit that the apostles did do these things but denied there is any command that we do them today. Indeed, he even used Peter healing others as an example of miracle power given them by Christ. So you have lied about DHK.


Second, this was not the issue between you and me and you know it. You have changed the subject to escape your lies! Let the readers see how you changed the subject to escape being caught in lying about me. Here are your words:

A. Original statement by me and Charge by You:

POST #74 - Jesus could walk on water and the APOSTLE Peter did for a short period. - The Biblicist

POST #75 - You and DHK have not admitted the error of saying the disciples did not walk on water. - Moriah


B. My Response to your charge:

POST #77 - BTW where did I ever say that the disciples of Jesus did not walk on water???????? If I said, quote it and give the post#. I think you are confusing me with someone else. - The Biblicist


POST #84 - That is not what you said! Here are your exact words:

You and DHK have not admitted the error of saying the disciples did not walk on water. - Moriah

So, you just didn't accuse DHK of saying that, you accused me also! However, I never said it! - The Biblicist


POST #79 - DHK said the disciples could not walk on water. I corrected DHK with scripture. Do you get it now? - Moriah


POST #84 - That is not what you said! Here are your exact words:

You and DHK have not admitted the error of saying the disciples did not walk on water. - Moriah

So, you just didn't accuse DHK of saying that, you accused me also! However, I never said it! - The Biblicist


POST #85 Then do not come and defend it, if you do not want to be lumped with it.
Since you defend what DHK said, then you defend what DHK said. You both cannot admit I have corrected you. - Moriah


POST #86 - Wrong again! I never did defend it. Read what I said:

Jesus could walk on water and the APOSTLE Peter did for a short period. - Biblicist

It was AFTER I said the above that you falsely accused me of stating that none but Christ ever walked on water! Your accusation was false then and it is false now as I NEVER said any such thing. - The Biblicist


POST#87 - You defended DHK when I corrected him about no disciples walked on water. If you defend someone for what they say, then you will be lumped with them. - Moriah


C. At this point you change your accusation from claiming I denied any apostle walked on water TO a completely different charge in order to escape your lie that I had agreed with DKH that no apostle walked on water (which I never stated). You attempt to make it appear that what you were really charging me all time with something completely different.

POST #88 - You sir are an intentional lying two faced hypocrite! I never defended DHK's statement and my words prove it! You are a liar and everyone on this thread knows you are a liar and lying is sin. - The Biblicist


POST #89 - Stop calling me a liar. Here is what you said! You quoted me concerning my correcting DHK about Peter walking on water. You said, “ DHK and I have already admitted this is true about the apostles as we pointed to the "signs of an apostle"”


DHK did NOT admit it. Again, you lumped yourself with DHK when you STATE YOURSELF that YOU and DHK have admitted it. Nowhere did DHK say I was right when I corrected him that Peter did in fact walk on water. YOU SAID "DHK and I have already admitted ..."


However, Post 89 is another falsification of facts. You ommitted my first words which are the very words your Post's 75, 79, 85, 87 deny I ever said -

"Jesus could walk on water and the APOSTLE Peter did for a short period. Jesus could also resurrect the dead and so could his Apostles."

You then jump over those words to a second statement which was NEVER the accusation you made against me in Posts 75, 79, 85, and 87. However, you now conveniently pretend that was your accusation in posts 75, 79, 85, and 87 when every reader can see clearly it was not - Hence, you are caught in another lie in an attempt to escape your first lie.




CONCLUSION: What DHK and I said about signs and wonders being restricted to the Apostlic age and not for today is a matter of record previous to where either you or I entered into this discussion (Posts #'s 23,30,62).

What you explicitly charged me with and charged me falsely with is that I took sides with DHK in denying Peter walked on water when I did not as Post# 74 proves I did not.

You continued making this same exact false charge in Posts #'s 75, 79, 85, 87

You then change the charge completely to something different in post #89, thus lying in order to escape being exposed as a liar. You pretend that you never charged me with with denying Peter walked on water by making it appear you were really charging me with affirming that DHK had already admitted that Christ's signs and wonders were restricted to the apostles and apostolic age which Posts #'s 23,30,62 prove he had admitted that.

You have been caught in a lie. Now you are caught in trying to escape a lie by telling another lie that you were really charging me about something completely different than Peter walking on water but with affirming that DHK had already admitted miracles, signs and wonders were performed by the apostles but restricted to the apostolic age. However that was not your original charge against me and YOU KNOW IT and so does every reader on this forum now know it because I have just reproduced the record of our debates and your posts
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To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. - Isa. 8:20

Isa 48:8 Yea, thou heardest not; yea, thou knewest not; yea, from that time that thine ear was not opened: for I knew that thou wouldest deal very treacherously, and wast called a transgressor from the womb.

 

Atheists do this too. So does the devil. Yea hath God said?

 

As for unkind attitudes, do you think it was a sin for Jesus to call people dogs, goats, and vipers? How about when he asked some of his disciples if they are dull? Jesus called people liars, and said some were children of the devil. Do you think it was unkind when Jesus said people were going to be thrown in hell?

John the Baptist called people vipers. Are you calling John a sinner for that? Apostle Paul called someone a whitewashed wall, are you calling Paul a sinner?

I think you have no business judging servants of the Lord. In fact, you are sinning when you do so. You are not qualified to judge HP’s or my attitude.

 

Experience????? Really? Name one human being (save Jesus Christ) that has EVER attained perfection in this life? :BangHead:

 

Quote me where I have been a false witness. Do not just post a link either. You still have to post where I said man does not have a sin nature. You are guilty of what you judge me to be. You are an accuser. You also call it normal for Christians to sin. I do not find such preaching in the Bible. I find your empathy for sin to be advocating sin. That is my humble and honest opinion. By their fruits, we know them.

 

Your lies are fully documented IN YOUR OWN WORDS in post #269

 

Try here:
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1816775&postcount=60

You made eleven accusations in just one post!

 

POST #74 - Jesus could walk on water and the APOSTLE Peter did for a short period. - The Biblicist

POST #75 - You and DHK have not admitted the error of saying the disciples did not walk on water. - Moriah

Here is your first lie! As readers can see I fully admitted Peter did walk on water in post #74 but in Post #75 you included me in denying that Peter walked on water. In spite of me pointing this out you went on in the following posts and lied over and over again saying I did not admit it:


POST #85 Then do not come and defend it, if you do not want to be lumped with it.
Since you defend what DHK said, then you defend what DHK said. You both cannot admit I have corrected you. - Moriah

POST#87 - You defended DHK when I corrected him about no disciples walked on water. If you defend someone for what they say, then you will be lumped with them. - Moriah

Of course the reader can see I distinctly admitted at the very first post that Peter walked on water and yet every single post after that I am accused falsely of denying Peter walked on water. Hence, you lied over and over again

 

This is the worst:

You are accusing DHK of speaking for Satan! You should be banned!

 

And you are qualified? Are these your qualifications?

These are your statements.
Is this what makes you qualified to speak of others Moriah, and to judge others?

 

Thank you, Michael. I have never denied sinning. I have never said man was not born with a sin nature. Those are false accusations that some here keep saying regardless of the truth.

 

You and Biblicist have lied about me many times. I stand by my statements I have made in self-defense, or just in observation. When someone comes on and says I sin by my attitude, then no, they are not qualified to be a righteous judge.