Can Believers Go One Day Without Sinning?

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Here is yet another passage to consider:

Php 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
Php 3:16 Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.
Php 3:17 Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.
Php 3:18 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:

 

[Moriah]

BTW Moriah you have sinned twice today already because twice you have falsely accused me of stating that no one but Christ every walked on water when I never defended any such thing.

You defended DHK when I corrected him about no disciple walking on water. If you defend something someone says, then be prepared to be lumped with them.

Now, concerning HP's imaginative doctrine, God never promises any child of God that he will help them live sinless! That is pure imagination.

Matthew 5:48
Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
2 Corinthians 7:1
Since we have these promises, dear friends, let us purify ourselves from everything that contaminates body and spirit, perfecting holiness out of reverence for God.
2 Corinthians 13:9
We are glad whenever we are weak but you are strong; and our prayer is for your perfection.
James 3:2
We all stumble in many ways. If anyone is never at fault in what he says, he is a perfect man, able to keep his whole body in check.

Progressive sanctification has nothing to do with living sinlessly but in growing progressively in grace and knowledge.

Those with false doctrines have grown further away from the Lord.

Paul repudiates this silly and unrealistic false doctrine clearly and explicitly and plainly in Philippians 3:12-14 denying that he has ever "attained" being "perfect" or without sin in this present life.

"No one, sir," she said. "Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin." John 8:11.
John 5:14 Later Jesus found him at the temple and said to him, "See, you are well again. Stop sinning or something worse may happen to you."

 

[Moriah]

Here is yet another passage to consider:

Php 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
Php 3:16 Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.
Php 3:17 Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.
Php 3:18 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:

Excellent scriptures showing that Paul is an example to be followed and that there are others to take note of who also live according to the pattern he gave.

 

[savedbymercy]

The True Believer, the new man created in True Holiness Eph 4:24

24And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

That man cannot sin because it is born of God 1 Jn 3:9

9Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Now that is the New Man that was born out of Incorruptible Seed 1 Pet 1:23

23Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Now, that Old which the are by nature,it cannot cease from sinning.

The scriptures teach that the Saint is a compound being, He is a Being born out of the Flesh, which is that corruptible seed, and then there is another man that He is, being born out of Incorruptible seed 1 Pet 1:23, He is a Old Man and a New Man. There is a scripture that states 2 Cor 4:16

16For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.

That inward man is that man of Eph 4:24 "the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness."

He also is a Spiritual Jew Rom 2:29

29But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly;

Rom 7:22

22For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

But the man that was born of the flesh is still with the Christian and so a True believer can never say 1 Jn 1:8

8If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

A person who says they are without sin, I already know they are deceived, may as well leave it alone !

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Some seem to be suggesting that Paul might be saying, "I and those with me sin every day. Live your lives in accordance to our sinful example."

 

[DHK]

Matthew 5:48
Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect. (mature, complete)
2 Corinthians 7:1
Since we have these promises, dear friends, let us purify ourselves from everything that contaminates body and spirit, perfecting holiness out of reverence for God. (bringing holiness to completion (ESV)
2 Corinthians 13:9
We are glad whenever we are weak but you are strong; and our prayer is for your perfection. (mature, completion)
James 3:2
We all stumble in many ways. If anyone is never at fault in what he says, he is a perfect (mature, complete) man, able to keep his whole body in check.

Those with false doctrines have grown further away from the Lord.

"No one, sir," she said. "Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin." John 8:11.
John 5:14 Later Jesus found him at the temple and said to him, "See, you are well again. Stop sinning or something worse may happen to you."

--Context was adultery.

You misunderstand the context and meaning of these words and verses.

 

[Moriah]

Some seem to be suggesting that Paul might be saying, "I and those with me sin every day. Live your lives in accordance to our sinful example."

Yes, I do believe that is exactly what they think Paul is saying.

 

[Moriah]

--Context was adultery.

You misunderstand the context and meaning of these words and verses.

Go now and leave your life of sin, and, stop sinning or something worse may happen to you are not hard to understand. Those words of Jesus are only hard to understand for people who do not give up sin.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

1Jn 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1Jn 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
1Jn 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

HP: A passage indeed to ponder.

 

[Moriah]

Some seem to be suggesting that Paul might be saying, "I and those with me sin every day. Live your lives in accordance to our sinful example."

Okay, this is hilariously true. It is so funny.

 

[Moriah]

1Jn 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1Jn 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
1Jn 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

HP: A passage indeed to ponder.

Oh how I love the Word of God!

 

[Moriah]

DHK,

Why did you give me an infraction for my post #208?

 

[Moriah]

Here are some scriptures for those who believe sinning does not affect our salvation.

Romans 2:7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

Luke 21:19 By standing firm you will gain life.

Romans 2:10 but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile.

Hebrews 10:36 You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised.

Galatians 6:8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.

 

[saturneptune]

DHK,

Why did you give me an infraction for my post #208?

I do not work in a position of Christian leadership for a vocation, and have never studied Scripture at a college or seminary, and can tell you exactly why he did. You accused him of engaging in some kind of blatant, repetative sin based on your total lack of understanding of Scripture. It is one thing to debate passages that are open to different understandings, it is another to throw accusations at a fellow believer (a moderator at that, not so bright, huh) of engaging in a pattern of sin when you (or HP) do not even understand the term.

Neither of you two ever answered the central question, that is, if you can go more than 24 hours without sinning, how long does it take?

 

[Moriah]

I do not work in a position of Christian leadership for a vocation, and have never studied Scripture at a college or seminary, and can tell you exactly why he did. You accused him of engaging in some kind of blatant, repetative sin based on your total lack of understanding of Scripture. It is one thing to debate passages that are open to different understandings, it is another to throw accusations at a fellow believer (a moderator at that, not so bright, huh) of engaging in a pattern of sin when you (or HP) do not even understand the term.

Neither of you two ever answered the central question, that is, if you can go more than 24 hours without sinning, how long does it take?

Quote me where I have done what you say. You cannot just randomly come on and say anything, or maybe you can. Lol

 

[saturneptune]

Quote me where I have done what you say. You cannot just randomly come on and say anything, or maybe you can. Lol

read post 208, duh

 

[annsni]

Some seem to be suggesting that Paul might be saying, "I and those with me sin every day. Live your lives in accordance to our sinful example."

Or maybe they are saying that Paul says that he sins but he fights it daily and so follow that example. Don't love and embrace sin but instead fight it daily.

I can give the example of me with my riding. I see near perfection in top riders and horses and know that is my goal but every time I ride, I make mistakes as does my horse. Do I allow those mistakes and keep doing them anyway? No. Yes I will most likely do them again because I need to train myself to overcome my body's imperfections for the sport but I work at decreasing those mistakes. Hopefully one day I will be able to overcome my leg and have it strong and still, staying in the right place but for now, I correct it regularly because it strays to where it should not be. As I train, my leg gets better and better but most likely, I will always struggle with it. In reality, I will also never be as good as those to riders but that doesn't mean that I won't keep striving towards that goal and fight the mistakes I make each time I ride.

It is the same way with my walk with Christ. I may sin less as I mature in the faith and ipunderstand myself more but I also know myself well enough to know that I will never be perfect until I am in heaven. But I don't embrace my sin - i fight it daily but I am not dumb enough to think that I can ever be perfect in this life. Only One was ever perfect on earth - even for a whole day.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Ann: Or maybe they are saying that Paul says that he sins but he fights it daily and so follow that example. Don't love and embrace sin but instead fight it daily.

HP: Fighting the good fight of faith daily is not succumbing to sin every day. We are on the winning side with the help of the Holy Spirit, not on the loosing side every day...if we will but yield ourselves to His influences and proffered help. We should not be losers on a daily basis.


Rom 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

Ann: I can give the example of me with my riding. I see near perfection in top riders and horses and know that is my goal but every time I ride, I make mistakes as does my horse. Do I allow those mistakes and keep doing them anyway? No. Yes I will most likely do them again because I need to train myself to overcome my body's imperfections for the sport but I work at decreasing those mistakes. Hopefully one day I will be able to overcome my leg and have it strong and still, staying in the right place but for now, I correct it regularly because it strays to where it should not be.

HP: One cannot always draw parallels or illustrations from life itself because the physical realm is not equated always to the moral realm. God blames and punishes sin. Are you to be blamed and punished eternally for a bad riding leg or simple riding mistakes? We will be held eternally accountable for sin in our lives. Because one has to heal over time in the physical realm does not mandate that one cannot lay hold by faith in the spiritual realm this very moment to keep one from sin. I can by faith look to God for the strength to overcome temptation, and with His help I can live this day completely in love with Him and free from sin.... if I will.

I would agree that it is the most common occurrence for a believers life early on to be fraught with yielding to temptation and sin, yet I have come to the conclusion that it is mostly caused NOT because it has to be that way but rather so often because of bad teaching and training by the leaders of so many churches, teaching that such a life of sin should be the normal and should be accepted as such. The case of sinning everyday has not been the normal Christian walk for many believers, and I fully believe it does not, not should it, be the normal walk for any believer. I would liken such a sinning walk as one playing Russian roulette with their eternal salvation.

Even Calvin said something to the effect at one point that no man can be assured of their final standing before God while in a position of low grace. Although I do not know that he ever defined what a position of 'low grace' is, I would take it to be a place of continued sinning against God if anything at all. Maybe someone here on the list has seen such a state of 'low grace' defined or might have somewhat to offer concerning such a state.

In any case, if we are to make our calling and election certain on a daily, moment by moment basis, we will have to exercise faith, walking a daily holy walk with Him by the help He has promised to grant to make such a walk happen.

My question to you Ann, is will you trust in God this very day to keep you clean and pure and free from sin? Is anything too hard for the Lord? Let's purpose in our hearts this very day to put God to the test.

1Co 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

 

[The Biblicist]

You defended DHK when I corrected him about no disciple walking on water. If you defend something someone says, then be prepared to be lumped with them.

Readers go to the thread entitle "Nine gifts of the Spirit" and look at Post#90 where I give full documentation of all the posts between Moriah and I on this subject and proved he lied not merely once but twice. His posts speak for themselves and are hard evidence to prove he has lied.

Matthew 5:48
Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
2 Corinthians 7:1
Since we have these promises, dear friends, let us purify ourselves from everything that contaminates body and spirit, perfecting holiness out of reverence for God.
2 Corinthians 13:9
We are glad whenever we are weak but you are strong; and our prayer is for your perfection.
James 3:2
We all stumble in many ways. If anyone is never at fault in what he says, he is a perfect man, able to keep his whole body in check.

None of the above quotations prove that God HELPS anyone live above sin. They set forth the goal as Paul confirms in Philippians 3:12-14 but Paul denied that God ever helped him "attain" that goal of being "perfect":

Philip. 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

If you have the ability to read English then Philippians 3:12-14 is an outright denial of the doctrine of Moriah, Plain-n-simple, HP and others.

"No one, sir," she said. "Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin." John 8:11.
John 5:14 Later Jesus found him at the temple and said to him, "See, you are well again. Stop sinning or something worse may happen to you."

What other alternative does he have??? Will he say, "Go and sin some more"?????? The aim/goal of every child of God is to keep from sinning but that does not mean he can but it is the only worthy goal to strive after. Again, Paul explicitly denies that anyone can "attain" being "perfect" in this life. Paul admits he could not "attain" it but we have doctrinal lunatics on this forum who believe they are more spiritual than Paul!!!!!!!:laugh::laugh:

 

[The Biblicist]

Some seem to be suggesting that Paul might be saying, "I and those with me sin every day. Live your lives in accordance to our sinful example."

You are knowingly perverting our position and interpretation of the scriptures.

No one on this forum believes God gives anyone a liscence to sin OR that the regenerate nature delights in sin. Nor does the position of anyone on this forum infer it any more than Paul infers such a thing by his denial in Philippians 3:12-14 that he can "attain" being "perfect."

However, we are talking about the issue of living above sin or being able to live without sin. Paul directly addresses this issue in Philippians 3:12-14 and any third grader with the ability to read English can understand what he explicitly denies. He denies that he is able to "ATTAIN" being "PERFECT" in this life. However, that does not mean he loves sin but explicitly and repeatedly states regardless of his inability to "ATTAIN" being "PERFECT" that he strives after that goal to be "perfect."

Thus in one extra abundantly clear passage that directly deals with the very issue of our debate Paul denies he can "ATTAIN" being "PERFECT" but that does not mean he loves sin or believes that gives him a liscence to sin but contrary that makes him more determined to PRESS and STRIVE after the goal of perfection.

However, we have a bunch of people on this forum who believe they are more spiritual than Paul and can attain what an apostle says he could not attain:

12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.


CONCLUSION: Just because we agree with Paul in Philippians 3:12-14 that we cannot "attain" being "perfect" in this life that does not justify you characterizing us as being against what Paul additionally said in Philippians 3:12-14 - "I FOLLOW AFTER.....REACHING FORTH.....I PRESS TOWARD...."

You intentionally characterize us as believing half of what he said while denying the other half and you know you misrepresenting both us and Paul.

You think you are more spiritual than Apostle Paul writing from prison to the Philippians near the end of his life!!!! You think you can "attain" being "perfect" and thus your as good as Jesus and getting better than Paul every day.

Furthermore, let the reader understand that you cannot provide any scripture better to support your position than one that directly and explicitly deals with the very argument and that is precisely what Philippians 3:12-14 provides - an explicit and direct address of the very argument between us.

However, let the reader take note that ALL the scriptures used by HP, Moriah, Plain-n-simple are texts that depend upon multiple INFERENCES that they insist upon rather than the texts necessarily demand. However, ever single solitary text they use to INFER their doctrine can be consistently interpreted with the explicit and direct address of Paul in Philippians 3:12-14!