can One Be Charasmatic And NOT Be In Word of faith?

[Yeshua1]

You have yet to show me where in scritures that we have to know the language that we speak! You have also yet to show me where I have to prove anything to you!

Scriptures contradict what you are telling me to do or know!
The ones speaking on the Day of Pentecost did not know the language..the ones hearing understood in their language!
In Acts 10 it does not say that the ones speaking knew the language they were speaking nor was it interpreted!
Acts 19 it does not say the ones speaking knew the language they spoke by the Holy Spirit, nor was it interpreted!
1Cor. 14:2 "For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries" ...it says that we speak to God..that is prayer!
1 Cor. 14:13 "Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret"...Funny, if we knew the language we were speaking, why would he tell us to pray for the interpretation?

Yet. you want me to prove tongue is from God by telling you what language I speak?????

the Miracle on day of pentacost was that ALL assembled heard the native language of the Apsotles/disciples in their own languages! They ALL spoke in their normal languages, and the Spirit transformed the Aramiac/hebrew into the listener hearing THAT in their native language!

So peter was not in aramiac, John hebrew, Thomas Greek all were speaking same language!

 

[awaken]

Prove it to God. If God says you are wrong then stop.
1 Corinthians 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
--This verse is a rebuke. Tongues was meant to edify all not to be used as a selfish gift for edification of one person. He that speaks in a language doesn't speak to men, but to God; for no man understands him.
In that much alone he was not to speak in this language that God had gifted him with. (The word "unknown" is provided by the translators, and is not in the original). The word "tongue" means language as in "mother tongue." If you can't be understood by the others then shut up. You are not edifying anyone. h

Even without unknown in the scriptures...it says the same thing! Speaking in tongues is speaking to God! He tells us in Jude to edify (build up) ourselves and you are tell us not to :laugh: I will do as God says! Praying in my most Holy Faith..edifying myself!

1 Corinthians 14:4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
--Same teaching: He that speaks in a foreign language only edifies himself. It is therefore a useless gift.

Sorry you think God's gifts are useless! I do not disagre with scriptures! It says to use your gifts in a church to edify each other! But it does not say you can not pray to God in private! My prayer life is edifying to me whether in my understanding or with the spirit.

1 Corinthians 14:9 So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.
Gibberish cannot be understood; neither can foreign languages that no one can understand. Speak in the known language of the day--in simple words that people can understand or don't speak at all. You are simply speaking into the air--not even unto God.

I agree with scriptures again! When we speak in tongues without the interpretation it is as if we are speaking into the air! It does not edify the congregation! But it does not call it gibberish and neither should we!

1 Corinthians 14:11 Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me.
--If you don't know the meaning, awaken, you are like a barbarian. That is a serious charge. You are to know the meaning of that which you speak. You are a barbarian yourself and those that listen are like barbarians to you. Barbarians speaking to barbarians. What wonderful conversation! Look up what the word " barbarian" means.[/quote} I love how you take only a verse to prove your point..and leave out the one that can really interpret it. This is only when we speak in tongues without the interpretation! He tells us in vs. 13 to pray that we may interpret..THAT MEANS WE DO NOT KNOW WHAT WE ARE PRAYING UNLESS GOD GIVES US THE INTERPRETATION. Which he does when we ask!

Is that enough proof for you? Understanding was essential--to both parties.

NO PROOF..Just your bad interpretation/out of context explainations!

[pquote]You contradict the Word of God with this view. What was the gift that was given the disciples. It plainly says: "and they spoke with other tongues."

Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
--Do you deny this verse?

More accurately put:
Acts 2:4 They were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and began to speak with other languages, as the Spirit gave them the ability to speak. (WEB)

Now there are listed a number of different nationalities--at least 13 that were present. What happened?
Acts 2:6 When this sound was heard, the multitude came together, and were bewildered, because everyone heard them speaking in his own language.
They heard them speak in his own language. There is no miracle in hearing. They heard them speak in their language. The miracle was that these 120 were speaking in their mother tongue or their own languages.

THey spoke in a language they themselves did not understand! I did not say there was a miracle of hearing! They spoke in the languages that the crowd understood! BUT THey themselves did not understand! It was an unlearned language!

The Egyptians heard Egyptian.
The Arabians heard Arabic.
The Libyians spoke either Berber or Punic.
The Romans spoke Latin.

They heard various of the 120 speak in their own language. The 120 did not all speak either in Greek or Hebrew. They spoke in different languages, and they heard them speak in those languages. They could pick out the ones speaking in their own languages. That is what happened. The miracle, stated, was "they spoke in other languages." The Bible states that. You can believe the Bible or remain in your own unbelief.

NOWHERE in this whole forum have I ever said otherwise! THey spoke in a language known to others BUT NOT TO THEMSELVES!

They spoke in anther known language. They knew it. How could they speak it if they didn't know. That is what the gift of languages is all about. God gave them the ability to speak another language. Clearly you lack understanding of this gift, and therefore justify your habit to speak gibberish.

You continue to ignore the gift of interpretation! IF we know the language we are speaking...why do we need to pray for an interpretation? Why do we need someone else to interpret it if we understand what we are saying? THis is common sense! How are you missing this?

They spoke in another language. That is what tongues means. It does not mean gibberish as you would have it translated. It was the gift of languages. It was a gift that God gave them.

You are the only one calling it gibberish! I have said all along in this whole forum that it was a known language...just not one that the speaker himself does not know!

No, it is not prayer. It is speaking in another language, a language that no one else in the congregation knows, to God. Why would a person do that? Therefore the gift is useless.

Again, I am sorry you feel that God's gift is useless! But it is speaking to God! It is plain in 1 Cor. 14 [vs. 2 speaking to God; vs. 14 if I pray in tongues, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful; vs. I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding; bs 17 I give thanks well (that is praying)]

Because it was a foreign language that no one understood.
Secondly, the interpretation of that language was primarily a sign for the Jews. They weren't even to use their gift unless Jews were present.

EXactly! They did not understand what they themselves were saying! Nowhere is there a rule about tongues stating that a Jew has to be present when you speak in tongues.

Absolutely!!
The gift of languages is a gift to speak a known language--a language that God has given you that you didn't know previously. If you don't know what you are speaking it is not of God, possibly even from a demon. How would you know??

You seek a sign before you believe! I do not have to prove to you no more than you need to prove to me that you are a christian! If you do not believe me or God's Word! THen you will just have to stay in your unbelief concerning tongues!

 

[awaken]

the Miracle on day of pentacost was that ALL assembled heard the native language of the Apsotles/disciples in their own languages! They ALL spoke in their normal languages, and the Spirit transformed the Aramiac/hebrew into the listener hearing THAT in their native language!

So peter was not in aramiac, John hebrew, Thomas Greek all were speaking same language!

So you and DHK disagree on this? YOu believe that it is a miracle of hearing?
Well, you need to examine all the scripture examples about tongues! I believe the disciples spoke in tongues (languages they themselves do not know). The crowd heard them speak in their native language!

 

[Yeshua1]

So you and DHK disagree on this? YOu believe that it is a miracle of hearing?
Well, you need to examine all the scripture examples about tongues! I believe the disciples spoke in tongues (languages they themselves do not know). The crowd heard them speak in their native language!

Important thing is taht regardless if its the languages being given or the hearing of them , it was a miracle for JUST Pentacost!

Just as tongues/prophecy was in NT Church age, as the Spriit gave Apsotles/prophets to confirm truth,a s scriptures not completed yet as the canon, but we need none of that in church today, for the SAME Spirit speaks just as surely whenever the bible is preached/taught!

 

[awaken]

Important thing is taht regardless if its the languages being given or the hearing of them , it was a miracle for JUST Pentacost!

Just as tongues/prophecy was in NT Church age, as the Spriit gave Apsotles/prophets to confirm truth,a s scriptures not completed yet as the canon, but we need none of that in church today, for the SAME Spirit speaks just as surely whenever the bible is preached/taught!

We are still in the New Testament AGE! THe New Covenant! The church age!

Miracles are throughout the Bible! God can still do miracles..any way He chooses to do them!

 

[evangelist-7]

If you (DHK) do not believe me or God's Word!
THen you will just have to stay in your unbelief concerning tongues!

NO! ... NO! ... NO! ... He should first get some sound council from da revster.
Sorry, I felt like havin' a good laugh.
Still laughin' ...
.

 

[DHK]

So you and DHK disagree on this? YOu believe that it is a miracle of hearing?
Well, you need to examine all the scripture examples about tongues! I believe the disciples spoke in tongues (languages they themselves do not know). The crowd heard them speak in their native language!

Here is a miracle of hearing:

http://ca.shine.yahoo.com/blogs/shine-on/deaf-woman-hears-son-voice-first-time-viral-181330405.html

 

[awaken]

Here is a miracle of hearing:

http://ca.shine.yahoo.com/blogs/shine-on/deaf-woman-hears-son-voice-first-time-viral-181330405.html

I do not look things up...unless they are scripture. So if you want to address scriptures...then we can agree or debate!

 

[DHK]

I do not look things up...unless they are scripture. So if you want to address scriptures...then we can agree or debate!

How many times do you hear of a woman being born deaf suddenly be able to hear. The video of her being able to hear her six year old child and her husband's voice for the first time in her life is amazing. God heals, just not always in the way that you expect him to.

You want Scripture:
Psalms 103:2 Bless the LORD, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits:
One of the great benefits of God is the intelligence that he has given man.

Now, that may have nothing to do with Acts chapter two.
What does is your denial of Scripture.
Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Acts 2:4 They were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and began to speak with other languages, as the Spirit gave them the ability to speak. WEB
--They spoke with other languages. God gave them the gift of languages, languages that they were able to understand and therefore speak.
You deny this verse, this miracle, even though it is so plainly stated. Why the denial awaken?

Acts 2:6 When this sound was heard, the multitude came together, and were bewildered, because everyone heard them speaking in his own language.
--They spoke in other languages, and therefore the crowd heard them in other languages. Doesn't that make sense to you? There was no miracle of hearing. To say there was is reading into scripture something that is not there, and inherently denying the miracle of speaking in tongues, which is so plainly stated.

 

[awaken]

How many times do you hear of a woman being born deaf suddenly be able to hear. The video of her being able to hear her six year old child and her husband's voice for the first time in her life is amazing. God heals, just not always in the way that you expect him to.

You want Scripture:
Psalms 103:2 Bless the LORD, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits:
One of the great benefits of God is the intelligence that he has given man.

Now, that may have nothing to do with Acts chapter two.
What does is your denial of Scripture.

You never addressed my post..because I backed everything up with Scriptures!

Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Acts 2:4 They were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and began to speak with other languages, as the Spirit gave them the ability to speak. WEB
--They spoke with other languages. God gave them the gift of languages, languages that they were able to understand and therefore speak.
You deny this verse, this miracle, even though it is so plainly stated. Why the denial awaken?

WHAT??? Are you serious? THis is all you have to say? I never denied that tongues was a language! Just not one that the speaker knew himself!

Acts 2:6 When this sound was heard, the multitude came together, and were bewildered, because everyone heard them speaking in his own language.
--They spoke in other languages, and therefore the crowd heard them in other languages. Doesn't that make sense to you? There was no miracle of hearing. To say there was is reading into scripture something that is not there, and inherently denying the miracle of speaking in tongues, which is so plainly stated.

I never said there was a miracle of hearing? I said those that spoke in tongues did not know what they were saying! THe ones hearing did, because they knew the language that was spoken by the disciples.
What we disagree on is that you seem to think I should know the language that I speak in tongues!

 

[DHK]

Even without unknown in the scriptures...it says the same thing! Speaking in tongues is speaking to God! He tells us in Jude to edify (build up) ourselves and you are tell us not to :laugh: I will do as God says! Praying in my most Holy Faith..edifying myself!

Not once does Jude mention speaking in tongues. Perhaps he means building yourself up by memorizing Scripture which would make far more sense. Speaking in the gibberish you speak in is tearing down the faith, for it is a selfish thing to do. It is the opposite of building up people.
Unless you know the language you are speaking you are not speaking to God. You are speaking gibberish which God can't understand either. It is not a language. Of course if you are speaking by the power of a demon, God will understand, and it won't be to His approval. In any case, if you don't have understanding it is not of God.

Sorry you think God's gifts are useless! I do not disagre with scriptures! It says to use your gifts in a church to edify each other! But it does not say you can not pray to God in private! My prayer life is edifying to me whether in my understanding or with the spirit.

There is not a single verse in the Bible that teaches tongues is to be used as a private prayer language, not one. You have failed to demonstrate that; over and over again. Thus your prayer life is full of gibberish and without understanding, meaningless before God. Or do you understand the languages you speak in? If so what are they?

I agree with scriptures again! When we speak in tongues without the interpretation it is as if we are speaking into the air! It does not edify the congregation! But it does not call it gibberish and neither should we!

Then since you don't have understanding when you speak in tongues stop doing it. It is simply gibberish--what you do. You don't understand what you speak. Your "tongues" could be demonic and you wouldn't know. You don't have any understanding.

THey spoke in a language they themselves did not understand!

They previously didn't understand it. That day God enabled them to both speak and understand it. It is silly to think that they could speak something that they couldn't understand. This is what the gift of tongues is--the enablement to speak a language previously not known to them.

You continue to ignore the gift of interpretation! IF we know the language we are speaking...why do we need to pray for an interpretation?

There are two reasons:
1. Tongues are a sign for the Jews. They may have been translated back into Hebrew as a sign for the Jews.
2. Tongues or languages would have been used for another minority group of people (perhaps visitors), and then translated back into the common language.
--It had a purpose. There had to be two language groups present.
It was a sign to the Jews. Paul's custom was to go to the Jew first; to go to the synagogue and there preach. Remember, he "spoke in tongues more than they all did." He went to foreign nations and spoke in their synagogues. 1Cor.14:21--a sign to the Jews.

Why do we need someone else to interpret it if we understand what we are saying? THis is common sense! How are you missing this?

I just explained it to you. I trust you are not missing it.

You are the only one calling it gibberish! I have said all along in this whole forum that it was a known language...just not one that the speaker himself does not know!

I am not the only one. You speak gibberish. You do not speak a language. If you did you would know what it is and you would be able to understand and even think in it. But you can't. It is just a string of nonsense syllables strung together, which God Himself does not understand.

Again, I am sorry you feel that God's gift is useless! But it is speaking to God! It is plain in 1 Cor. 14 [vs. 2 speaking to God;

God's gift of languages was to be used to edify the whole church. Paul just said it is a useless and selfish gift because it doesn't edify the whole church. All you are doing is speaking in another language to God. But that was in the first century when the gift that was given was an actual language, and not gibberish like you have.

vs. 14 if I pray in tongues, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful; vs. I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding;

Actual languages do have understanding, but only if they are interpreted for the benefit of all. If there is no interpretation then your spirit prays, and your understanding is limited. You always understand more in your own language. Therefore pray in your own language and your own understanding.

bs 17 I give thanks well (that is praying)]
This is not private. It is public, praying aloud for the benefit of all.
It is not the gibberish that you do.

EXactly! They did not understand what they themselves were saying! Nowhere is there a rule about tongues stating that a Jew has to be present when you speak in tongues.

No, it was a foreign language that others could not understand.
It was a sign to the Jews. That was the primary use of tongues. See 1Cor.14:21. That and, it was an apostolic sign (2Cor.12:12)

You seek a sign before you believe! I do not have to prove to you no more than you need to prove to me that you are a christian! If you do not believe me or God's Word! THen you will just have to stay in your unbelief concerning tongues!

I know whojm I have believed. I know that I am saved. I don't need a second blessing. I am sure of my salvation, and of the Holy Spirit working through my life.
It is you that sounds to be very unsure in your experiences and therefore also in your Christian life.
I don't seek after signs. "An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign."
The fact that you don't know what you are speaking should greatly concern you. It is not a Biblical gift. It is a Charismatic phenomena that started in 1905 and was only known among paganism previous to that date. You don't have a good track record historically.

 

[Thomas Helwys]

We are still in the New Testament AGE! THe New Covenant! The church age!

Miracles are throughout the Bible! God can still do miracles..any way He chooses to do them!

And the canon is still being written, too.

Actually, in Charismatic practice, that is unfortunately true because they are writing and rewriting scripture through their experiences, making them the final authority.

 

[awaken]

Not once does Jude mention speaking in tongues. Perhaps he means building yourself up by memorizing Scripture which would make far more sense.

Well, Gods ways are far above your ways...and He says building up your selves on your most holy faith, PRAYING IN THE HOLY GHOST!

Speaking in the gibberish you speak in is tearing down the faith, for it is a selfish thing to do. It is the opposite of building up people.
Unless you know the language you are speaking you are not speaking to God. You are speaking gibberish which God can't understand either. It is not a language. Of course if you are speaking by the power of a demon, God will understand, and it won't be to His approval. In any case, if you don't have understanding it is not of God.

Here you go again..calling God's gift gibberish! Are you saying God does not know every language? My faith is in God that gave us the Holy Spirit...which is the Spirit that gives the utterance! The part in bold I have already covered over and over!

There is not a single verse in the Bible that teaches tongues is to be used as a private prayer language, not one. You have failed to demonstrate that; over and over again. Thus your prayer life is full of gibberish and without understanding, meaningless before God. Or do you understand the languages you speak in? If so what are they?

No, you have failed to understand! Paul calls it praying in the spirit! speaking to God, magnifying God! I can do this in private! With my understanding and with the spirit.

Then since you don't have understanding when you speak in tongues stop doing it. It is simply gibberish--what you do. You don't understand what you speak. Your "tongues" could be demonic and you wouldn't know. You don't have any understanding.

Show me in scripture where I have to know the language! Not your opinion! I trust God and His Word over your opinion!

They previously didn't understand it. That day God enabled them to both speak and understand it. It is silly to think that they could speak something that they couldn't understand. This is what the gift of tongues is--the enablement to speak a language previously not known to them.

Nowhere does it say they understood! I have shown you over and over that! IF they understood they would not have to pray for an interpretation!

There are two reasons:
1. Tongues are a sign for the Jews. They may have been translated back into Hebrew as a sign for the Jews.
2. Tongues or languages would have been used for another minority group of people (perhaps visitors), and then translated back into the common language.
--It had a purpose. There had to be two language groups present.
It was a sign to the Jews. Paul's custom was to go to the Jew first; to go to the synagogue and there preach. Remember, he "spoke in tongues more than they all did." He went to foreign nations and spoke in their synagogues. 1Cor.14:21--a sign to the Jews.

Letting the Holy Spirit give you the utterance...is also a purpose! Speaking to God is prayer!

I just explained it to you. I trust you are not missing it.

NO, you did not explain why we need an interpreter if we know the language! There is a difference in interpretation and translation! We do not know what we are speaking..vs. 2 and vs 13 of Corinthians 14 prove that!

I am not the only one. You speak gibberish. You do not speak a language. If you did you would know what it is and you would be able to understand and even think in it. But you can't. It is just a string of nonsense syllables strung together, which God Himself does not understand.

God does not like you calling His gift gibberish! Spiritual things have to be spiritually discerned! You are trying to reason this out in your mind! Ask God to reveal the truth to your spirit! I have given every scripture that He has brought to my mind concerning tongues! Vs. 2 does not say that God does not understand!

God's gift of languages was to be used to edify the whole church. Paul just said it is a useless and selfish gift because it doesn't edify the whole church. All you are doing is speaking in another language to God. But that was in the first century when the gift that was given was an actual language, and not gibberish like you have.

Paul did not say say it was selfish when interpretated! I pray for the interpretation! God honors His Word!

Actual languages do have understanding, but only if they are interpreted for the benefit of all. If there is no interpretation then your spirit prays, and your understanding is limited. You always understand more in your own language. Therefore pray in your own language and your own understanding.

bs 17 I give thanks well (that is praying)]
This is not private. It is public, praying aloud for the benefit of all.
It is not the gibberish that you do.

You need to read that again! Praying in the spirit is the one that he says you give thanks well! ...but the others are not edified! So if I pray in public without the interpretation it is of no use to the congregation! BUT NO WHERE IN SCRIPTURES DOES IT SAY I CAN NOT PRAY IN PRIVATE...WHETHER IN THE SPIRIT OR MY UNDERSTATNDING!

No, it was a foreign language that others could not understand.
It was a sign to the Jews. That was the primary use of tongues. See 1Cor.14:21. That and, it was an apostolic sign (2Cor.12:12)

You limit the gifts of God to just your understanding! I have shown over and over that it is praying! Can He use it for a sign? Yes! Can He use it for the Apostles? Yes! But I do not limit Him on how He wants to manifest!

I know whojm I have believed. I know that I am saved. I don't need a second blessing. I am sure of my salvation, and of the Holy Spirit working through my life.
It is you that sounds to be very unsure in your experiences and therefore also in your Christian life.
I don't seek after signs. "An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign."
The fact that you don't know what you are speaking should greatly concern you. It is not a Biblical gift. It is a Charismatic phenomena that started in 1905 and was only known among paganism previous to that date. You don't have a good track record historically.

NO, it is Biblical! I trust His word over what past churches have done! Denomination after denomination has failed God! THere unbelief in His Word is pathetic! God is raising up a bride that will worship Him in Spirit and Truth...one that will be walking in His power! He is not coming after a hag! He is coming for a glorious church! The lukewarm churches he will spew out of His mouth! God is going to shake everything in the Last Days! The End time church is called to conquer!
PENTECOST DID NOT END IN THE FIRST CENTURY...THE LAST DAYS ARE UPON US! The church will be revived not divided! God will pour out His Spirit, release (manifest) His gifts, and send the saving message of Jesus's cross to the ends of the earth!

 

[awaken]

And the canon is still being written, too.

Actually, in Charismatic practice, that is unfortunately true because they are writing and rewriting scripture through their experiences, making them the final authority.

Nowhere does my experience contradict scriptures! Nowhere did I say the written word was being added to or taken away!
His rhema word is for today!

 

[awaken]

IF you claim to be a Charasmatic, aren't you by definition involved in cultic word of faith pretty much?

To get back on topic of this thread...what is your defintion of "word of faith"?

 

[evangelist-7]

I do not look things up...unless they are scripture.
So if you want to address scriptures...then we can agree or debate!

Sorry to nit-pick ... but, let's keep things totally accurate here!
All spiritual Truths are not in Scripture.
E.G. peoples' spiritual experiences which totally agree (line up) with Scripture.
Dem wonderful CONFIRMATIONS of da Truth just ain't in the Scriptures.
But, they still are True, and they are spiritual, and ...

Awaken, you totally amaze me ... I thought I was the only one with the patience to hang here!
Some day, we'll hafta raise a glass together.
.

 

[DHK]

To get back on topic of this thread...what is your defintion of "word of faith"?

Why? It was asked and answered.
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1960991&postcount=17

 

[awaken]

Sorry to nit-pick ... but, let's keep things totally accurate here!
All spiritual Truths are not in Scripture.
E.G. peoples' spiritual experiences which totally agree (line up) with Scripture.
Dem wonderful CONFIRMATIONS of da Truth just ain't in the Scriptures.
But, they still are True, and they are spiritual, and ...

Awaken, you totally amaze me ... I thought I was the only one with the patience to hang here!
Some day, we'll hafta raise a glass together.
.

Not saying that they are not accurate...I just do not base what I believe on it! Confirmation about His word is great!

 

[awaken]

Why? It was asked and answered.
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1960991&postcount=17

Things got so off topic...I guess I forgot what the thread was all about!

 

[Yeshua1]

Things got so off topic...I guess I forgot what the thread was all about!

So do you define charasmatic experiences as being what the word of faith , or the prosperity/Health and wealth supporters say it as being?