can One Be Charasmatic And NOT Be In Word of faith?

[evangelist-7]

No, I don't consider anything beyond what the Scripture teaches.
Is that what you teach?

"For as many as are being LED by the Spirit of God, these are the sons of God." (Romans 8:14)

I take it that you don't care for Jesus explanation ...

“But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name,
He will teach you all things ...” (John 14:16-26)

If the Holy Spirit were to talk to you, would you consider what He said?

What the Holy Spirit usually says to Christians is not some passage of Scripture.
It's a bit more personal in nature, i.e. to do with your life, your situation.

Try it some time before you die, I'm sure you'll like it.
.

 

[evangelist-7]

I just was wondering how many in it believe as you do. If you're the only one, you must feel out of place.

I've seen other Spirit-filled believers placed by the Lord in "deader" churches for a year or more
... for who-knows-what-reason-exactly? ... Thou mayest use your imagination.

EVERYONE here agrees, I believe, that:
-- the "word of faith" movement (as used by many today) is unscriptural.
-- the "prosperity" movement (as used by many today) is unscriptural.

If everyone is satisfied with this, why don't we move on to something else.
.

 

[Yeshua1]

Graphe is the "written word" "writings"
Logos is the "understood message of the graphe/writings/scriptures"
Rhema is the Logos declared. Rhema is utterance, words spoken or decalred.

The graphe (book/Bible/written) gives us the logos (understanding of the graphe) so we can Rhema (declare/stand on).
Rhema is what the Spirit uses in warfare.

where is ANY of that explaine dint he bible though?

sounds like more christian Gnostic beliefs, in that the "spritual" ones can get revelation from god thru the Spriit that others miss!

isn't it interesting that the oNLY groups that seem to have this 'spiritual" take on proper bible understanding are the ones who also allow for ongoing revelation thru rhema of god thru modern Apostles/prophets?

 

[Yeshua1]

"For as many as are being LED by the Spirit of God, these are the sons of God." (Romans 8:14)

I take it that you don't care for Jesus explanation ...

“But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name,
He will teach you all things ...” (John 14:16-26)

If the Holy Spirit were to talk to you, would you consider what He said?

What the Holy Spirit usually says to Christians is not some passage of Scripture.
It's a bit more personal in nature, i.e. to do with your life, your situation.

Try it some time before you die, I'm sure you'll like it.
.

waht i would NOT be doing is taking specific promises made to JST the apostles by jesus, and apply those to my life!

 

[Yeshua1]

I've seen other Spirit-filled believers placed by the Lord in "deader" churches for a year or more
... for who-knows-what-reason-exactly? ... Thou mayest use your imagination.

EVERYONE here agrees, I believe, that:
-- the "word of faith" movement (as used by many today) is unscriptural.
-- the "prosperity" movement (as used by many today) is unscriptural.

If everyone is satisfied with this, why don't we move on to something else.
.

Those 2 are the main modern charasmtic aspects to the "Movement' now, so what is left to be a charasmatic on ifyou disagree with those 2 groups then?

 

[DHK]

Well, again you have taken scriptures and added your own little twist to it. I could do the same, but I am not going to play that game!

No I haven't.
In the past I have told Baptist posters, as well as Catholics, Charismatic and others not to simply copy and past verses out of the Bible without explanation. My four year old grandson can do that. It does not require a great deal of skill. What one needs to do is to take those Scriptures and explain what they mean, and that is what I have done. Now you want me to do what I have advised others not to do. And if I am correct you are one of those people.
The explanations, exposition of Scripture steps on your toes and thus you are offended and say "I am not gong to play that game."
It is not a game. I am sorry that you play around with the Bible and look simply regard Bible study as a game to play when it deals with a person's eternal destiny. That is a shameful attitude and a flippant attitude to take toward the Word of God.

If Charismatic is believing in the manifestations of the Holy Spirit in 1 Cor. 12...then I am one.. along with others on this board!

If you knew what manifestation meant you wouldn't continue to use it. Everyone of us serve the Lord with the talents God gave us. Why do you imply that we don't. That is just the same as an slanderous false accusation, but only because you have your own existential meaning of the word "manifestation."

So according to your post we are unrighteous, darkness, wolves in sheep clothing, infidel and the devil etc. Is this what you stoop to when you can not answer questions like...WHY DOES IT SAY TO PRAY FOR THE INTERPRETATION IF WE KNOW THE LANGUAGE OR UNDERSTAND WHAT WE PRAY?Would you like me to post all the verses on unbelief?

I have told you many times already.
First, there is no such thing as a private prayer language as every gift was for the edification of the entire body.
Second, if there was no interpreter, the one praying had to be the interpreter himself (for the public). It doesn't say pray for tongues, but pray for interpretation.
Third, tongues was only given when there was at least two language groups present. Otherwise what would be the purpose of tongues? Just to show off?
Fourth, The reason for interpretation would be for the second language group, who wouldn't know what was being said to the first language group (perhaps visitors from another nation).

If everyone in the Corinth church spoke Greek there was no need for anyone of them to speak in another language and it was out of order. That is why Paul said it was without understanding, and he told them to keep quiet.

 

[evangelist-7]

sounds like more christian Gnostic beliefs, in that the "spritual" ones can get revelation from god thru the Spriit that others miss!

I thought you did some prophesying through the Holy Spirit?
I.E. this info was revealed only to you, and then you passed it on.

IMO, you now believe it was all from Satan, which is very possible indeed,
since it seems you were a part of a messed-up and deceived congregation.
.

 

[evangelist-7]

Courtesy of the evangelist in your midst ...

"For as many as are being LED by the Spirit of God, these are the sons of God." (Romans 8:14)

“But the Helper, the Holy Spirit ... He will teach you all things ...” (John 14:16-26)

waht i would NOT be doing is taking specific promises made to JST the apostles by jesus, and apply those to my life!

Are you serious?

I truly thought the whole Christian community believed that these Scriptures apply to all born-again Christians.

But now I've run into you and the DHK ... And I'm a-thinkin' about da EOC and da RCC.
And I've been shocked back into REALITY ... Thank you!

Yup, you iz serious! ... Suicide time for me again ... might not be back.
.

 

[evangelist-7]

Those 2 are the main modern charasmtic aspects to the "Movement' now,
so what is left to be a charasmatic on ifyou disagree with those 2 groups then?

What is left, dear soul, is to know positively that people in these movements are greatly deceived.
'Tis a nice thing to know, n'est pas?

Dost thou requireth to see the Scripture warnings AGAIN about who Satan is these days?
'Cause all it takes for moi is a click of the mouse.
.

 

[awaken]

No I haven't.
In the past I have told Baptist posters, as well as Catholics, Charismatic and others not to simply copy and past verses out of the Bible without explanation. My four year old grandson can do that. It does not require a great deal of skill. What one needs to do is to take those Scriptures and explain what they mean, and that is what I have done. Now you want me to do what I have advised others not to do. And if I am correct you are one of those people.
The explanations, exposition of Scripture steps on your toes and thus you are offended and say "I am not gong to play that game."
It is not a game. I am sorry that you play around with the Bible and look simply regard Bible study as a game to play when it deals with a person's eternal destiny. That is a shameful attitude and a flippant attitude to take toward the Word of God.

I know the game too well! You can not address the scriptures or questions addressed so you Use derogatory and demening terms to describe the topic. Satan uses this tatic to effectively shame and discourage anyone who is genuine about seeking the truth about Bible truths!
The scriptures you post are true...but your twist was inserted saying that all that believe in the manifestation of the Holy Spirit for today was included in that group. The Bible does not do that! YOU DO! That is your twist! THat is your game!

 

[awaken]

If you knew what manifestation meant you wouldn't continue to use it. Everyone of us serve the Lord with the talents God gave us. Why do you imply that we don't. That is just the same as an slanderous false accusation, but only because you have your own existential meaning of the word "manifestation."

I know the meaning and have shared what manifest means! It just does not fit your theology so you discard it! I even gave Websters definition!

I have told you many times already.
First, there is no such thing as a private prayer language as every gift was for the edification of the entire body.

YOu telling me and proving it in scriptures is two different things! I on the other hand have shared scriptures proving my stand. Praying in the Spirit and understanding (two different prayer), Speaking to God (that is prayer).

Second, if there was no interpreter, the one praying had to be the interpreter himself (for the public). It doesn't say pray for tongues, but pray for interpretation.

You need to read your response over slowly! I never said it said pray for tongues! I said it tell US (the ones praying in the spirit) to pray for the interpretation (proving that they themselves do not know what they are praying or know the language they are speaking! If they did...WHY WOULD THEY PRAY FOR THE INTERPRETATION? How many times are you going to avoied answering that question??

Third, tongues was only given when there was at least two language groups present. Otherwise what would be the purpose of tongues? Just to show off?

Again, your theology...no scripture to prove your point!

Fourth, The reason for interpretation would be for the second language group, who wouldn't know what was being said to the first language group (perhaps visitors from another nation).

THat is translation! NOt interpretation! Interpretation is the meaning of what was said! If I know what I am saying..if I know the language..then I would not have to pray for either one!!

If everyone in the Corinth church spoke Greek there was no need for anyone of them to speak in another language and it was out of order. That is why Paul said it was without understanding, and he told them to keep quiet.

THey were to keep quiet only if there were no interpretation! I will pray with the spirit AND with my understanding! It says pray both ways! Praying in the spirit is not understood without the interpretation, PERIOD!

 

[DHK]

THey were to keep quiet only if there were no interpretation! I will pray with the spirit AND with my understanding! It says pray both ways! Praying in the spirit is not understood without the interpretation, PERIOD!

You don't get ti do you? If you could understand this one point many of your other problems might be solved. "Tongues" are actual "languages," not your gibberish. It was the gift of languages wherein God gave them a gift of speaking in another language that they previously did not know. You speak in English. God suddenly gives you the gift of speaking in Hindi. But no one in your church speaks Hindi. Therefore it is a useless gift. Even if God miraculously gave the gift of interpretation it would still be useless because no one speaks Hindi. Why speak Hindi to a English only congregation. It makes no sense.

In order for you to use that gift there has to be purpose. There must be some Hindi speaking people present or the gift is useless. If, by chance, God directed some Hindi speaking people to your church then your gift would be beneficial and an interpreter would be necessary to translate or interpret (same thing--the words are synonymous) back into English so that the rest of the congregation will understand. There must be two language groups for the gift to be beneficial.

Corinth was on a very busy trade route where people from many different ethnic groups visited. Thus people from different backgrounds would come and this scenario could have happened many times. It is not so when, in our culture everyone speaks the same language--English. There is no need of speaking in another language.

Speaking in another language for speaking in another language sake was wrong, and Paul said it was wrong. That is what you don't get.

1 Corinthians 14:2 For he who speaks in another language speaks not to men, but to God; for no one understands; but in the Spirit he speaks mysteries.
--This was a rebuke. If you speak in another language and no one understands you, what profit is it. Speak to yourself or shut up. You simply speak mysteries to other people, and mysterious uneducated mumbo jumbo is not edifying to anyone.

 

[Yeshua1]

What is left, dear soul, is to know positively that people in these movements are greatly deceived.
'Tis a nice thing to know, n'est pas?

Dost thou requireth to see the Scripture warnings AGAIN about who Satan is these days?
'Cause all it takes for moi is a click of the mouse.
.

why does the Holy sprit need to be operating SAME fashion as He was in acts?

has God always worked the same always throughout the scriptures, or did he do things different ways/means at differing times?

 

[Yeshua1]

I know the game too well! You can not address the scriptures or questions addressed so you Use derogatory and demening terms to describe the topic. Satan uses this tatic to effectively shame and discourage anyone who is genuine about seeking the truth about Bible truths!
The scriptures you post are true...but your twist was inserted saying that all that believe in the manifestation of the Holy Spirit for today was included in that group. The Bible does not do that! YOU DO! That is your twist! THat is your game!

the ONLY "twisting" that he is doing is rightly explaining to you what the Bible verses actually mean with rightly understood!

 

[Thomas Helwys]

You would be surprised how many in churches all around/every denomination that believe as I do.

I wouldn't actually. I know that Dennis Bennett, an Episcopal priest, started the Charismatic renewal in the mainline churches back in the 60's.

 

[Yeshua1]

I wouldn't actually. I know that Dennis Bennett, an Episcopal priest, started the Charismatic renewal in the mainline churches back in the 60's.

Intersting that the Charasmatic movement spread into the Roman catholic church also, and wonder why the Holy spirit did not try to get their doctrines cleaned up and made true?

 

[awaken]

You don't get ti do you? If you could understand this one point many of your other problems might be solved. "Tongues" are actual "languages," not your gibberish. It was the gift of languages wherein God gave them a gift of speaking in another language that they previously did not know. You speak in English. God suddenly gives you the gift of speaking in Hindi. But no one in your church speaks Hindi. Therefore it is a useless gift. Even if God miraculously gave the gift of interpretation it would still be useless because no one speaks Hindi. Why speak Hindi to a English only congregation. It makes no sense.

You can not reconcile that with 1 Cor. 14! It is speaking to God! Praying in the spirit! I have always said it is a language! Just one the speaker himself does not know or understand unless God gives the interpretation!

In order for you to use that gift there has to be purpose. There must be some Hindi speaking people present or the gift is useless. If, by chance, God directed some Hindi speaking people to your church then your gift would be beneficial and an interpreter would be necessary to translate or interpret (same thing--the words are synonymous) back into English so that the rest of the congregation will understand. There must be two language groups for the gift to be beneficial.

The Holy Spirit is the interpreter! Again, you can not reconcile that with scriptures on speaking in tongues anywhere except in Acts 2. That is the only example given where there were unbelieving Jews. The disciples in Acts 2 and 10 were magnifying God!

Corinth was on a very busy trade route where people from many different ethnic groups visited. Thus people from different backgrounds would come and this scenario could have happened many times. It is not so when, in our culture everyone speaks the same language--English. There is no need of speaking in another language.

Speaking in another language for speaking in another language sake was wrong, and Paul said it was wrong. That is what you don't get.

Tongues was not used for evangalizing anywhere in scripture. Acts 2 it was Peter that did the preaching of the word-not tongues! In Acts 10 it was Peter that proclaimed the gospel-not tongues! In Act 19 tongues was not used to preach! So scriptures again disproves your theory!

1 Corinthians 14:2 For he who speaks in another language speaks not to men, but to God; for no one understands; but in the Spirit he speaks mysteries.
--This was a rebuke. If you speak in another language and no one understands you, what profit is it. Speak to yourself or shut up. You simply speak mysteries to other people, and mysterious uneducated mumbo jumbo is not edifying to anyone.

How many times are you going to post the same thing over and over! I have agreed to the fact that without the interpretation we should not pray in the spirit in a gathering!

 

[awaken]

I wouldn't actually. I know that Dennis Bennett, an Episcopal priest, started the Charismatic renewal in the mainline churches back in the 60's.

Well, we can go back even futher than that! Acts 2 is when the Holy Spirit was poured out...been here ever since...will be here until Christ returns!

 

[awaken]

where is ANY of that explaine dint he bible though?

sounds like more christian Gnostic beliefs, in that the "spritual" ones can get revelation from god thru the Spriit that others miss!

isn't it interesting that the oNLY groups that seem to have this 'spiritual" take on proper bible understanding are the ones who also allow for ongoing revelation thru rhema of god thru modern Apostles/prophets?

Did you look up all the Greek words (logos, graphe, and rhema) in the Bible?
That is where I started!

 

[evangelist-7]

why does the Holy sprit need to be operating SAME fashion as He was in acts?

has God always worked the same always throughout the scriptures,
or did he do things different ways/means at differing times?

Who said He needed to? ... Does Scripture say He won't continue in the same way?
Where does it say, "After all of the apostles have died off, the Spirit will work differently"?
In our experience, He is operating the same way as we read in the NT,
except we've never really met any apostles (but maybe they're just not called that any more).

Throughout Scripture, God's Spirit came UPON His people TO ANOINT them.
OT -- the prophets
NT -- those baptized with the Holy Spirit
.