Christ died for the dead in hell?

[agedman]

Yet another "taint so" post using the fallacy of personal incredulity. Folks, this is all they have got.

17So this I say, and affirm together with the Lord, that you walk no longer just as the Gentiles also walk, in the futility of their mind, 18being darkened in their understanding, excluded from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the hardness of their heart; 19and they, having become callous, have given themselves over to sensuality for the practice of every kind of impurity with greediness.​

Yep, these heathen certainly have all the hallmarks of those seeking or even capable of seeking God.

 

[agedman]

False, there are the lost, men of flesh, and the saved, spiritual men.

Born anew believers, that have not yet grown in respect to salvation are still "fleshy" carnal, and babes in Christ needing milk and not meat. But they are not men of flesh, but like men of flesh need milk.

Yes men of flesh are unsaved and unable to discern spiritual meat. But no scripture says that some of them, some of the time do not seek God and fully trust in Christ. That claim has been shown false time and time again with verses like Matthew 23:13, and 1 Cor. 3:1.

My thinking has not been refuted, such claims pointing to the unreferenced past are just more fiction.

Van,

You have neglected the truth though many have attempted numerous times to aid your understanding.

You have rejected the truth though many have used Scriptures to show you a more excellent way.

I merely respond so that others who are casual readers and not participants might not be ensnared in your error.

Of course you are going to refuse this post and declare it not addressing the topic or resorting to attacking.

But it is not.

It is just information sharing so you know from what perspective I more often take when responding to one of your posts.

 

[Van]

17So this I say, and affirm together with the Lord, that you walk no longer just as the Gentiles also walk, in the futility of their mind, 18being darkened in their understanding, excluded from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the hardness of their heart; 19and they, having become callous, have given themselves over to sensuality for the practice of every kind of impurity with greediness.​

Yep, these heathen certainly have all the hallmarks of those seeking or even capable of seeking God.

Matthew 13:1-23 speaks of four soils, this passage addresses the first soil, not the other three. And what is laughable is the "become callous" emboldened" in the post. The bogus doctrine teaches the lost are conceived or born in the fallen condition which includes total spiritual inability. However, the very passage cited above teaches we lose what we had to become unable to respond. Thus it teaches the opposite of the bogus doctrine!!!

 

[Van]

Van,
You have neglected the truth though many have attempted numerous times to aid your understanding.
You have rejected the truth though many have used Scriptures to show you a more excellent way.
I merely respond so that others who are casual readers and not participants might not be ensnared in your error.
Of course you are going to refuse this post and declare it not addressing the topic or resorting to attacking.
But it is not. It is just information sharing so you know from what perspective I more often take when responding to one of your posts.

Yet another off topic, you, you, and you post, devoid of content, but full of personal attacks. This is all they have, they ignore scripture, and insult those who are attempting to share what they believe is true. Bunker mentality anyone?

 

[Yeshua1]

Paul addressed baby chritians, carnal ones, and lost sinners, correct?

 

[agedman]

Matthew 13:1-23 speaks of four soils, this passage addresses the first soil, not the other three. And what is laughable is the "become callous" emboldened" in the post. The bogus doctrine teaches the lost are conceived or born in the fallen condition which includes total spiritual inability. However, the very passage cited above teaches we lose what we had to become unable to respond. Thus it teaches the opposite of the bogus doctrine!!!

Two questions Van can not resolve.

One, WHO is the owner of the soil, the determiner or the nutrient ability of the soil and what will be relegated to being good, shallow, rocky?

Two, WHAT is the ONLY soil in which the seed had the nutrients and was sustained until harvest?

See, Van neglects that 3rd grade science demonstration that shows the seed has life in itself.

The child takes the plastic zipper lock sandwich bag, puts a couple tablespoons of water in the bag, staples across a third from the bottom, and a seed above the staples. Zipped and hanging in the classroom windows.

Soon the roots appear, and even the stalk and leaf, but there is no life sustaining ability, and soon the seed has no capacity to thrive.

Nope.

Modern science even shows how wrong Van is, far more the Scriptures are not found in agreement with him.

 

[Yeshua1]

4 soils were described, and Jesus said only 1 was good and right, but Van seems to have at least 3 of them good and right.

 

[Van]

On and on they post, one deflection after another. Scripture is crystal, total spiritual inability from conception is bogus doctrine.

Yeshua1 seeks to change the subject to a non-germane point. It has already been addressed, Paul was speaking to new born believers who still could not receive spiritual meat (solid food) but instead needed milk. So Paul spoke to them (new born believers) as to men of flesh (the unregenerate lost having the ability to understand and believe the gospel milk.)

Next Agedman wants to talk about the owner of the soil. Is the owner mentioned in Matthew 13:1-23? Or is this too a deflection to a non-germane point? Next he asks which soil was saved, not which soils received the gospel. Thus yet again seeking to change the subject.

Total Spiritual Inability occurs during the lifetime of the lost as described in Ephesians 4:17-19. Therefore total spiritual inability from conception as a result of the Fall is bogus doctrine.

 

[saved and sure]

If Jesus died for the sins of every person in the world, then there would be no Hell in the first place.

Christ's atoning work was for His elect.

Can you provide scripture that states Jesus died for all but He only atoned for the elect? I have seen that statement made on this forum quite a bit but never supported by scripture, maybe you could help with that. Thanks

 

[saved and sure]

"God so loved the world" is not the same thing as, "God loved every single person who ever lived or ever will live."

My goodness where in the world did you come up with your beliefs?

 

[saved and sure]

No. Many will go to Hell because they chose to reject Jesus. Correct me if I' wrong but, ''universalists'' believe God just saves everyone.

As soon as you accept John 3:16 for what is says they automatically accuse you of being a universalist. When we rebut election with verses that state that it is not God's will that any perish but all come to repentance we are accused of being universalists. They just don't get it. They cannot take God at His Word, they just have to change meanings and add to scripture to make their beliefs fit.

 

[saved and sure]

All of them.

Oh please

 

[saved and sure]

Another answering a question with a question post. You did not;support your false claim, Go figure.
The verse does not say "all spiritual things" yet that was your adulteration. Folks, pay no attention to those who misrepresent what the bible actually says to push false theology.

A big AMEN!

 

[saved and sure]

Thanks Tyndale 1946, for supporting my view with scripture. Fallen man has limited spiritual ability, being able to understand spiritual milk but not spiritual meat. Verses 9-12 teaches the inability to understand spiritual meat until indwelt. In verse 14, the spiritual things in view are spiritual meat. Here are the verses that continue your passage.



Thus fallen men can receive some spiritual things, spiritual milk which includes the fundamentals of the gospel.

He is speaking to the saved babes not those who are not saved. The indwelling of the Holy Spirit happens at the time the person accepts Christ as Savior. I assume that you are speaking of those who are saved and not growing.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Scripture please!1 Pay no attention to those who make assertions about what the Bible teaches without citing the verse or passage where the doctrine is taught. The claim was none of the lost can discern spiritual truth, but Matthew 23:13 teaches some of lost were entering the kingdom. The exact opposite of the assertion.

Hi Van,
Can you please tell me: did these guys in Matthew 23:13 actually enter the kingdom or not?
Thanks in advance for a prompt reply.

 

[Van]

He is speaking to the saved babes not those who are not saved. The indwelling of the Holy Spirit happens at the time the person accepts Christ as Savior. I assume that you are speaking of those who are saved and not growing.

He is speaking to those who are saved and have not grown, but he is speaking to them as if they were still men of flesh. Therefore men of flesh, unsaved folks can understand spiritual milk.

 

[Van]

Hi Van,
Can you please tell me: did these guys in Matthew 23:13 actually enter the kingdom or not?
Thanks in advance for a prompt reply.

How could they be "entering the kingdom" is they suffered from total spiritual inability? Thanks in advance for you prompt and on topic reply.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

How could they be "entering the kingdom" is they suffered from total spiritual inability? Thanks in advance for you prompt and on topic reply.

So you don't know if these people actually entered the kingdom or not yet you're building your whole doctrine upon it? Come on, Van, you must know! Did they enter or not? Please tell us! Pretty please!

 

[Wesley Briggman]

I encountered this fellow claiming that Jesus died for the sins of the elect, (which I refuted with Jn 3:16) and now wants to question the scope of His atonement with a question:

"So, if you agree that Jesus died for everybody's sins, you have to agree that He also died for the sins of the souls in Hell, right?"

I disagree because according to Mt 22:32, Jesus is the God of the living, and not of the dead.

Any thoughts also you would like to emphasize, brethren?

Eph 2:1, 4-5 KJV - 1 And you [hath he quickened], who were dead in trespasses and sins; ... 4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

Christians were all spiritually dead before Christ imparted spiritual life. The Bible teaches: spiritual death, eternal death; spiritual life, eternal life. Of course the reality of physical life and death are obvious.

 

[Wesley Briggman]

No. Many will go to Hell because they chose to reject Jesus. Correct me if I' wrong but, ''universalists'' believe God just saves everyone.

Since "many" go to hell for rejecting Jesus, why do the remnant go?