Featured Christ payment was for all mankind

No addition was needed but it was nonetheless inserted, and it forces an interpretation that is not necessarily correct.

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I disagree. I think it's important.

If that were my view, it would be faulty. That is a species of hyper-Calvinism.

As I say, that is not my view. Why not ask me what my views are instead of telling me?

 

(KJV) And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

(ASV) and he is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the whole world.

(EMTV) And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not only concerning ours, but also concerning those of the whole world.

(ESV) He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.

(Geneva) And he is the reconciliation for our sinnes: and not for ours onely, but also for the sinnes of the whole world.

Translation after translation says the same thing--that Christ made an atonement not for our sins only but for those of the whole world. In no way can this be construed to be the sins of the elect. That has to be read into the text. It would be a matter of eisegesis.

The meaning is simply that Christ satisfied the legal demands of God with the payment of His sacrificial blood on the cross. That was the price--the price that he paid for the penalty of our sins and the sins of the whole world: his blood. That is what satisfied the legal demands of God. Thus he made a propitiation for our sins.
Was it enough? His blood was enough to satisfy God to pay for the sins of all the world. That does not mean all the world will be saved, it simply means it is sufficient enough for all the world to be saved had they wanted to be saved. It is efficacious only for them who believe on Him. Salvation is by faith. The penalty was paid. Now the pardon must be received. Only a fool would reject it, but the world is full of fools.
"The fool has said in his heart, there is no god."

 

You're wrong. The same author of 1 John penned the Gospel that bears his name. Look at 11:51b-52:
"Jesus would die for the Jewish nation, and not only for that nation but also for the scattered children of God, to bring them together and make them one."

The very same author wrote the book of Revelation. See 5:9b :
"with your blood you purchased for God persons from every tribe and people and nation."

See 17:8b :"The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world."

These people are the elect of God. They and they only are redeemed of the Lord.

Gaze at 1 Peter 1:1 :
"To God's elect, strangers in the world, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia"

Don't be simple-minded. It is beyond anything biblical for you to say the words "had they wanted to be saved."

No one apart from the Divine intervention of the Lord "wants" to be saved. It is not a matter of choosing to be wise. For one to be savingly united to the Lord does not depend on one's keen perception and ability. It depends on God's mercy. That ought to remind you of Romans 9:16:
"It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God's mercy."

The Lord determines who shall receive his mercy and who will not.

Faith that the Lord gives his own.

Unless the Lord opens spiritual eyes, nobody would be saved. He is the One to cause us to be born from above. He chooses to give certain ones spiritual birth. He hardens the rest.

Remember that the children of God are "not born of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God." (John 1:13)

It is all due to God --not to our pat-on-the-back "decision all on my own" type of nonsense. He made his light to shine in our hearts. (2 Cor. 4:6) I know that just riles the free-will enthusiasts --but the Lord causes us to be His --not us!

 

29 that no flesh should glory before God.
30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who was made unto us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption:
31 that, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord. 1 Cor 1

 

1) No verse or passage says Jesus paid in full the sin debt of those individuals chosen before the foundation of the world. What scripture actually says is Jesus laid down His life as a ransom for all, that He tasted death for everyone, that He is the propitiation or means of salvation for the whole world.

2) Jesus had died for you before you were conceived in iniquity. If your sins had been propitiated, then you would not have formerly walked in your transgressions and sins. We would not have been the same as the rest. But we were, Ephesians 2:1-3

 

My objection is not with your views, whatever they are, but with Calvinism, the TULI of the Tulip. Those are the views that are unbiblical.
1) Matthew 23:13 demonstrates that unregenerate men can be entering the kingdom of heaven, thus seeking God. Therefore the "T" of the Tulip is mistaken doctrine.
2) 2 Thessalonians 2:13 demonstrates that God chooses individuals for salvation through faith in the truth, thus a conditional election. Therefore the "U" of the Tulip is mistaken doctrine.
3) 1 John 2:2 demonstrates Jesus is the propitiation or means of salvation for the whole world, thus Limited Atonement as defined by Calvinism, is mistaken doctrine.
4) Matthew 23:13 demonstrates that men entering the kingdom of heaven were blocked, thus the doctrine of irresistible grace is mistaken.

 

So jesus dud not pay our sin debt in full, even though the Bible states that he is our mercy seat before the father?

Having my sins already paid for/propiated to the father though is NOT same thing as me now being saved and now born again though!

 

ALL of us if left to own desires and will though would say that same thing, as we are by nature children of wrath, at war against God, and would not seek him to get saved!

 

It is certain that Cornelius sought him.
And a careful study of the Scriptures will show that there is no good reason not to believe that initially Abraham, David or Moses did not originally seek after God. Why wouldn't they? There is nothing to indicate they didn't; just your theology.

 

Are you trying to make an argument from silence?

 

There is not a Scripture in the NT that states that God gives faith to the unregenerate, not one, and yet you keep parroting this unbiblical error.

I simply explained 1John 2:2. You did nothing to disprove my exposition of it.

 

Concerning Cornelius, no. The evidence is clear. He wasn't saved nor did the Holy Spirit come until the Gospel was preached by Peter. In fact that is the very reason why God sent Peter to the house of Cornelius.

Concerning the others mentioned, perhaps. There is no reason to believe otherwise. Especially David. David constantly asserts in his psalms that his heart pants after the Lord; he thirsts after God, and does so always. There wasn't a time in David's life where he didn't. That is what the Psalms indicate. When Samuel came to the house of Jesse, they described David as just a youth. Even then he sang praises to the Lord while keeping the sheep. Surely the Lord was with him then as he had killed both a lion and a bear. All indicators point to the fact that David sought after the Lord. Over and over again he states that he sought after the Lord. My soul seeks after thee.

 

Ok, but the question remains, why did David always seek the Lord?

 

There are two reasons. The first is obvious. As a believer he was filled with the Spirit.
But the second is not so obvious and should be rephrased: When did David start seeking the Lord?
David was brought up in a Godly Jewish family. We cannot read the process of "regeneration" back into the OT. We know that David became a man after God's own heart, and that at a very early age. Did David at one time seek God, or did God initiate the process. I don't believe the latter has to be the case in each and ever case since the Bible says otherwise.

There are many commands given to the unsaved to: Seek the Lord while he may be found." There is nothing to stop an individual from seeking the Lord except Calvinist theology.

 

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Would it be correct to say that, God was propitiated, therefore he extended, his mercy through the one who propitiated him?

How was God, the Father I assume, propitiated?

He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: because he hath poured out his soul unto death:

Just how dead was the one who propitiated? We have a satisfied God, the Father I assume, and a dead Son of God. What exactly was/is the mercy by which we, were/shall be saved? Aorist.

And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. 1 Cor 15:17

What is the grace of God, the Father I assume, that allowed the blood of the Son of God, to wash away our sins, so we are not yet in our sins?

What did the satisfied God, the Father I assume, do?

 

Cornelius is a prime example to how though of how just a sinner perceives that there is a God!

Romans states that nature itself points that truth out for all to see, and sinners will see that and some grasp that he exists, but that is NOT able to save anyone, belieiving that god exists, as there MUST still be the work of the Holy spirit to open them up to receiving the truths of the Gospel, and by faith receive Jesus as Lord!

Total Depravilty does not mean that no one will ever believe in "God", as all of us have idols of one kind or another to "worship" but that unless/until the Lord opens up their hearts and mind to Jesus, none of them will ever get to the point of 'saving faith"

 

Not only does he perceive there is a God he believes in God, has faith in God. He knows who Jehovah is. He is accepted among the Jews and has been listening to the teaching at the synagogues. The Jews accepted this man, a Roman Centurion, as a "devout man" among the Jews, not the Christians; one that feared God, the God of the Jews, not the Christians. He did believe and have faith in God.
But the Jews rejected the Messiah. One doesn't hear the gospel preached from the synagogue. He needed the gospel in order to be regenerated/saved. He sought God. God answered his prayer and sent Peter with the gospel, and thus upon hearing the Word--the gospel of Christ--he was regenerated/saved.

Romans one and two teach us these basic truths:
God's truth concerning himself can be found in His creation.
God's law concerning himself is found in the heat of man.
God testifies of himself in the conscience of every man.
Thus when man stands before God he will have no excuse for not believing in Him. He has enough of the revelation of God to put his faith in Him (Rom.1:20).
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

That is Total Inability. The Bible doesn't teach that. Neither does the Bible teach anything about "saving faith." Where is that term found in the Bible?
Cornelius believed or had faith in God.
When Peter came he put that same faith in Christ. It wasn't any magical, mysterious, mystical faith given by God. Faith is faith. It is believing.
As he believed in Jehovah before, now he put his faith in Christ. Because his faith is in Christ he is saved. It is Christ that saves, not the faith. Faith is the means by which one is saved.
For by grace are ye saved through faith.

 

Amen! :thumbs: There is no difference between us on that.

Do you know what Christians mean when they talk about 'saving faith'? Just to believe that there was such a Person as Jesus of Nazareth who lived a long time ago and did a lot of good stuff gets you nowhere. Even the demons believed in Jesus. The faith that saves is seeing oneself as a poor lost sinner; seeing the Lord Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour, turning away from sin and laying hold of Christ as a drowning man lays hold of a life-belt. If you want to know where saving faith is in the Bible, have a look at Luke 18:13-14.

'.......and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God.'
Whether you think it is the grace and the faith that is the gift of God, or just the faith, the fact is that it comes from God. 'No one understands, no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless. That is why the Lord Jesus said, 'No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draw him' (John 6:44, ESV).