Christian Feminism...

[Allan]

Phoebe was not a deacon and there is no such thing as a Deaconess.

I agree as well. :thumbs:

 

[superwoman8977]

Well then what do you call the women in my church who are deacons? They are deaconesses. Duh....anyways we arent in the stone ages, the more I read this thread the more I see how lost Christians are. Not everything in the bible is literal there is so much that is in Gray area that the Lord wants us to figure out, and the more and more I study the more and more I see that. Just like in the Song of Solomon thread each of us have a different perception as to what that book in the bible is all about. The more I look into it the more where I see it is all about God's love to us not all about the sexual aspects unless thats the way you look at it. Thats just like Christ asking us to be "Fishers of Men" that has different interpretations for different people as well. I see it calling me to one day pastor a church and use my testimony to help others, others see it in different ways. I was always taught a woman can do anything a man can do (ie serve in the military on the combat lines) and I am so glad my parents instilled that in me. Because that has helped me through so much. Yeah I am a pretty independent woman, right now I am working full time and coming home and running a household and active in 4-H and church. Yeah I am the victim of adultery and I am so glad that I can close that chapter of my life and move on and have an even better life. I thank God for giving me that opportunity, but I will not stand for a man or a pastor telling me I cannot do something because I am a woman. And I am glad there are lots of women who are starting to wake up and realize that they can do anything a man can do and still have an awesome relationship with the Lord.

 

[Palatka51]

Well then what do you call the women in my church who are deacons? They are deaconesses. Duh....anyways we arent in the stone ages, the more I read this thread the more I see how lost Christians are. Not everything in the bible is literal there is so much that is in Gray area that the Lord wants us to figure out, and the more and more I study the more and more I see that. Just like in the Song of Solomon thread each of us have a different perception as to what that book in the bible is all about. The more I look into it the more where I see it is all about God's love to us not all about the sexual aspects unless thats the way you look at it. Thats just like Christ asking us to be "Fishers of Men" that has different interpretations for different people as well. I see it calling me to one day pastor a church and use my testimony to help others, others see it in different ways. I was always taught a woman can do anything a man can do (ie serve in the military on the combat lines) and I am so glad my parents instilled that in me. Because that has helped me through so much. Yeah I am a pretty independent woman, right now I am working full time and coming home and running a household and active in 4-H and church. Yeah I am the victim of adultery and I am so glad that I can close that chapter of my life and move on and have an even better life. I thank God for giving me that opportunity, but I will not stand for a man or a pastor telling me I cannot do something because I am a woman. And I am glad there are lots of women who are starting to wake up and realize that they can do anything a man can do and still have an awesome relationship with the Lord.

Let's circumvent the Bible and let a divorced woman be our pastor. Why do we need it anyway? I am going to do what I want to do regardless of what it says.

 

[donnA]

Well then what do you call the women in my church who are deacons?

What are they called? Women ignoring scripture to do what they want.

anyways we arent in the stone ages, the more I read this thread the more I see how lost Christians are.

so,,, what, the bible is stone age and because of that we aren't to follow it? God doesn't know what He's talking about?
Christians are lost? Lost means unsaved, you are judging the salvation of people who beleive scripture and don't make it up.

The meaning of scripture does not change. men change it to suit themselves so that their wants become biblical, and their sin is no longer sin.

but I will not stand for a man or a pastor telling me I cannot do something because I am a woman. And I am glad there are lots of women who are starting to wake up and realize that they can do anything a man can do and still have an awesome relationship with the Lord.

Then you refuse scripture and what God has said in it, but this is nothing ew, you have bragged about throwing out scripture you do not like all over this board.
Those living in violation of scripture do not have an active on going relationship with God, if they did they would want to be obedient to His words.

 

[donnA]

Let's circumvent the Bible and let a divorced woman be our pastor. Why do we need it anyway? I am going to do what I want to do regardless of what it says.

This is exactly the attitude about God and scripture we are seeing, and it is shameful that people adjust scripture to suit culture and their sinful desires.

 

[tinytim]

Phoebe was not a deacon and there is no such thing as a Deaconess.

Phoebe can be debated....

But the office of Deaconess is a real office in our churches... (ABC/USA denom.)
For us it is not an ordained office, but it is an office.
It is an office where the women meet women's needs that a man cannot meet.
The deaconesses in the church I formerly was youth pastor in helped the women in situations where it would be inappropriate for a man to help them.
They also prepared the communion table, and helped the ladies get dressed for baptism.


Now you may say that we have no scriptural basis for deaconess, and for that reason the office shouldn't exist.
Just be prepared to justify other offices in church where there are no scriptural support... Like:
Trustees, Secretary, Church Clerk, Missions Coordinator, Audio/Visual personel, Sunday School Superintendent, etc.

Paul said we must do things in decency and in order...
The church has changed through the centuries to meet people's needs within the culture those people live.
A deaconness is a valuable asset to the church. Just as Trustees are...
Imagine a woman needing to talk to a male deacon about a hysterectomy she needs to have.... I wouldn't want my wife talking to our deacon... even though he is almost 70 yrs old....

I would probably lose my deacon! He gets embarrased over the slightest of things, and he would go home to be with God over the embarrassment! :laugh:

She would go to his wife... which in a way is filling the office of deaconess even though it is not an official office in my current church.

There are other situations in which you can think of I am sure in which a woman would rather talk to another woman to help her...
The office of Deaconess provides this service to women of the church.

 

[Sopranette]

Superwoman, I'm going to politely ask you....do you not see a pattern to your responses? Do you not agree you cannot serve two masters, in this case, the Lord AND your own convictions? I'm asking , because this seems to me to be the one thing you cannot get past.

love,

Sopranette

 

[Revmitchell]

Phoebe can be debated....

But the office of Deaconess is a real office in our churches... (ABC/USA denom.)
For us it is not an ordained office, but it is an office.
It is an office where the women meet women's needs that a man cannot meet.
The deaconesses in the church I formerly was youth pastor in helped the women in situations where it would be inappropriate for a man to help them.
They also prepared the communion table, and helped the ladies get dressed for baptism.


Now you may say that we have no scriptural basis for deaconess, and for that reason the office shouldn't exist.
Just be prepared to justify other offices in church where there are no scriptural support... Like:
Trustees, Secretary, Church Clerk, Missions Coordinator, Audio/Visual personel, Sunday School Superintendent, etc.

Paul said we must do things in decency and in order...
The church has changed through the centuries to meet people's needs within the culture those people live.
A deaconness is a valuable asset to the church. Just as Trustees are...
Imagine a woman needing to talk to a male deacon about a hysterectomy she needs to have.... I wouldn't want my wife talking to our deacon... even though he is almost 70 yrs old....

I would probably lose my deacon! He gets embarrased over the slightest of things, and he would go home to be with God over the embarrassment! :laugh:

She would go to his wife... which in a way is filling the office of deaconess even though it is not an official office in my current church.

There are other situations in which you can think of I am sure in which a woman would rather talk to another woman to help her...
The office of Deaconess provides this service to women of the church.

The deacon and deaconess I speak of are the ordained office. As far as "Diakonos" we all should be.

 

[Sopranette]

It is an office where the women meet women's needs that a man cannot meet.
The deaconesses in the church I formerly was youth pastor in helped the women in situations where it would be inappropriate for a man to help them.
They also prepared the communion table, and helped the ladies get dressed for baptism.


Now you may say that we have no scriptural basis for deaconess, and for that reason the office shouldn't exist.
Just be prepared to justify other offices in church where there are no scriptural support... Like:
Trustees, Secretary, Church Clerk, Missions Coordinator, Audio/Visual personel, Sunday School Superintendent, etc.

Paul said we must do things in decency and in order...
The church has changed through the centuries to meet people's needs within the culture those people live.
A deaconness is a valuable asset to the church. Just as Trustees are...
Imagine a woman needing to talk to a male deacon about a hysterectomy she needs to have.... I wouldn't want my wife talking to our deacon... even though he is almost 70 yrs old....

I would probably lose my deacon! He gets embarrased over the slightest of things, and he would go home to be with God over the embarrassment! :laugh:

She would go to his wife... which in a way is filling the office of deaconess even though it is not an official office in my current church.

There are other situations in which you can think of I am sure in which a woman would rather talk to another woman to help her...
The office of Deaconess provides this service to women of the church.

Then why can't these two women talk woman to woman? Why does one need a title to do so?

love,

Sopranette

 

[tinytim]

The deacon and deaconess I speak of are the ordained office. As far as "Diakonos" we all should be.

Ordained offices are something else than what I am speaking of, so I think we are on the same page....

The "office" (not ordained, but voted on each yr) of deaconess does the following...

Prepare communion table
Help the females getting dressed for Baptism
handles the flower arrangements
Counsel other women
etc...

:thumbs:

 

[Revmitchell]

Ordained offices are something else than what I am speaking of, so I think we are on the same page....

The "office" (not ordained, but voted on each yr) of deaconess does the following...

Prepare communion table
Help the females getting dressed for Baptism
handles the flower arrangements
Counsel other women
etc...

:thumbs:

We are. I also question the legitimacy of the other offices you mentioned.

 

[tinytim]

Then why can't these two women talk woman to woman? Why does one need a title to do so?

love,

Sopranette

When a woman is elected as deaconness, she is provided with the proper training in order to properly counsel other women.
These women are set apart, and the women of the congregation knows that if they have a need, they can come to these women who are prepared to meet their needs.

In no way do these deaconnesses have any authority... they simply are there to serve... The same way deacons should...

Which brings us to another problem that is worse than a woman deacon.

A male deacon that thinks that office gives him any authority in the church.
A male deacon has no authority whatsoever, they are only there to serve.

But today's American Deacons have usurped authority the Bible has never gave them.

A Deacon is only a servant and helper of the Pastor.

A church that let's their deacons make the decisions of the church is as unscriptural as a church that ordains women to be deacons.

 

[Revmitchell]

When a woman is elected as deaconness, she is provided with the proper training in order to properly counsel other women.
These women are set apart, and the women of the congregation knows that if they have a need, they can come to these women who are prepared to meet their needs.

In no way do these deaconnesses have any authority... they simply are there to serve... The same way deacons should...

Which brings us to another problem that is worse than a woman deacon.

A male deacon that thinks that office gives him any authority in the church.
A male deacon has no authority whatsoever, they are only there to serve.

But today's American Deacons have usurped authority the Bible has never gave them.

A Deacon is only a servant and helper of the Pastor.

A church that let's their deacons make the decisions of the church is as unscriptural as a church that ordains women to be deacons.

Again same page.

 

[Allan]

Ordained offices are something else than what I am speaking of, so I think we are on the same page....

The "office" (not ordained, but voted on each yr) of deaconess does the following...

Prepare communion table
Help the females getting dressed for Baptism
handles the flower arrangements
Counsel other women
etc...

:thumbs:

I am still in agreement with RevM. on this regarding the ordained aspect.

I wouldn't use the term 'deaconess' for that office anymore than I would use the term 'apostle' to speak of a missionary because it can convey the wrong meaning to those who do not understand or wish to make it more that it is.

 

[donnA]

Prepare communion table
Help the females getting dressed for Baptism
handles the flower arrangements
Counsel other women
etc...

No one needs to be a deacon to do all this, and if only deaconesses do these jobs it limits other women even more.

 

[Revmitchell]

I am still in agreement with RevM. on this regarding the ordained aspect.

I wouldn't use the term 'deaconess' for that office anymore than I would use the term 'apostle' to speak of a missionary because it can convey the wrong meaning to those who do not understand or wish to make it more that it is.

Careful agreeing with me. It might throw you in the fundamental category.

 

[donnA]

Phoebe can be debated....

But the office of Deaconess is a real office in our churches... (ABC/USA denom.)
For us it is not an ordained office, but it is an office.
It is an office where the women meet women's needs that a man cannot meet.
The deaconesses in the church I formerly was youth pastor in helped the women in situations where it would be inappropriate for a man to help them.
They also prepared the communion table, and helped the ladies get dressed for baptism.


Now you may say that we have no scriptural basis for deaconess, and for that reason the office shouldn't exist.
Just be prepared to justify other offices in church where there are no scriptural support... Like:
Trustees, Secretary, Church Clerk, Missions Coordinator, Audio/Visual personel, Sunday School Superintendent, etc.

Paul said we must do things in decency and in order...
The church has changed through the centuries to meet people's needs within the culture those people live.
A deaconness is a valuable asset to the church. Just as Trustees are...
Imagine a woman needing to talk to a male deacon about a hysterectomy she needs to have.... I wouldn't want my wife talking to our deacon... even though he is almost 70 yrs old....

I would probably lose my deacon! He gets embarrased over the slightest of things, and he would go home to be with God over the embarrassment! :laugh:

She would go to his wife... which in a way is filling the office of deaconess even though it is not an official office in my current church.

There are other situations in which you can think of I am sure in which a woman would rather talk to another woman to help her...
The office of Deaconess provides this service to women of the church.

again, other women not deaconesses are being limited if these are the jobs of the deaconess. If I were a part of a church like this it would make me feel rejected if I weren't a deaconess.

 

[stilllearning]

Hi tinytim


I think that you have hit the nail on the head.

You said.......

“The church has changed through the centuries to meet people's needs within the culture those people live.”

As to whether or not, “the Church needs to change”, can be saved for another thread;

But the issue being discussed here, is the great error, of changing the Church, with no regard to what the Bible says.

Some change “might” be okey, but no amount of pressure from the world, should lead us to disregard the Bible’s plain teachings!

 

[donnA]

Then why can't these two women talk woman to woman? Why does one need a title to do so?

love,

Sopranette

Exactly. It limits the other women in the church that this type of minitry is for deaconesses.

 

[Revmitchell]

Hi tinytim


I think that you have hit the nail on the head.

You said.......


As to whether or not, “the Church needs to change”, can be saved for another thread;

But the issue being discussed here, is the great error, of changing the Church, with no regard to what the Bible says.

Some change “might” be okey, but no amount of pressure from the world, should lead us to disregard the Bible’s plain teachings!

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=51230