Christian Universalism?

Evil is what is called the "sin principle". One can interchange the words when talking about it, but for the most part evil is looked at as that force. Sin is shown to be in two ways. Sin expressions...to lie, ....to murder. Sin is also shown as a force...something that pulls at our lust and/or pride. This force is evil or the sin principle. To get a better understanding of this, you would need to know what sin is, and how evil came about to be. If God didn't make sin or evil, where did it come from?

 

As was pointed out in a rather lenghty discussion elsewhere, both the Hebrew and the Greek have two different words that are translated as "evil". One is a moral evil the other is calamity (the opposite of peace or welfare). God states that he created calamity-evil in Isaiah. But, there is not a single place that I'm aware of that states that God created moral evil.

 

Thanks for your thoughts. But my understanding of a Christian worldview is that evil is not a force. It does not exist of and on its own, but is rather the absence or rejection of good. Therefore, "evil" cannot be created. It results from the absence of good.

I would say that our sin nature "pulls at our lust and/or pride" or perhaps is embodied in our sin nature. There is not some force causing us or inciting us to sin other than our own nature (and desires arising from it), and other than Satan's temptations.

In fact, one of the distinctions of a Christian worldview and an occult and New Age worldview is about evil being a force. In the occult and New Age, evil does exist as a force on its own, though sometimes it is referred to as the "dark side" instead of "evil" (and "negativity" in the New Age, usually). In Neopaganism, this "evil" or "dark side" is to be equally balanced with "good" or the "light side," as exemplified by the balance of yin and yang (which many Pagans/witches use to symbolize this view).

Sin came into the world through rebellion against God -- originally with Satan, who then came to earth and tempted Adam and Eve, who chose to go against God. God made us with the ability to choose to go against him, but that does not mean he is the author of sin.

 

As Hope of Glory pointed out. there is evil in the sense of calamity, and evil in the sense of moral sin. I tend to not call calamity "evil" though I understand perfectly why some people do and what they mean by it. I just do not think that technically it is evil because I tend to think of evil as moral evil.

On the other hand, any calamity/disaster such as earthquakes, natural fires, storms, floods, etc. are all a result of sin, too, because the world was corrupted and tainted by sin when man sinned (see Gen. 3 and Rom. 8). So we can even say that such disasters are a result of sin although they do not contain moral evil in and of themselves.

So -- evil is sin or the result of sin.

 

IMO, and although this is just my opinion I do believe there is Biblical support, sin is not a "thing" that can be created, but the lack of alignment with God. All God has to do to "create" sin is to allow a self-willed creature to do things his own way, which is not going to be in alignment with God's way. That's not God creating moral evil. That's simply the inevitable result when God stops doing the steering.

 

That's pretty much the outcome of the other discussion on it.

 

Please don't remind me of this site! Yes, I know about it. The guy emailed me several times in the past. I forgot why or how he got into it with me. I have seen refutations of his arguments.

 

Here is a page on Christian universalism with arguments refuting it:
http://www.carm.org/universalism.htm

Matt Slick of CARM had to close his universalist forum down. Here he says why:
http://www.carm.org/uni/uniclose.htm

 

This was a great answer.

I believe that God did foreknow that Adam and Eve would sin.
He did foreknow that Christ would be lifted up.
He did foreknow that some would persist in rebellion anyway.
He did foreknow those who would be in Christ through no merit of their own and those who would be passed over because of rebellion.
He foreknew all of this and created the universe anyway.

It doesn't answer the question of why God would create a universe in which fallen creatures would be consigned to hell, but it sure does answer the question of whether or not God cared enough to do something about it.

If we are consigned to hell it is because we rejected our eternal purpose. We can only blame ourselves.

The other question will remain unanswered.

 

Did God make Good? Anyone,

 

-----------------------
BB quote
Did God make Good? Anyone,
--------------------------

God Is good :tongue3:

 

Didn't ask you that, there is God who we know is good and there is Good and there is evil. I ask you if God made Good.

 

I was already familiar with their site. Like I said, univeralists can see that "aionios" cannot mean "eternal" or "everlastin". So, they take Matthew 25:46, and properly see that it's not talking about everlasting punishment, and then just assume that applies to everyone. It's the polar opposite of those who see nothing but everlasting salvation or everlasting damnation in all the passages that are talking about a time of limited duration. But, just like those who don't see the passages concerning punishment of limited duration, universalists fail to see the passages that do talk about everlasting punishment.

They're polar opposites, and they get their doctrines from the same book, but they both only see the all-or-nothing approach.

 

Marcia,

I would agree in someways. Sin Nature is used in place of the sin principle under anthropology as it relates to man. Apart from man, most will just use sin principle under hamartiology. But ..in the end we are talking about the same thing.

Now we are very close on our views, but you state yours one way, and I another. Evil was made, by satan..or this is my view. God gave satan a choice and in short order it was...Satan..you follow me and I will be your God....Or Satan..you can have your own way..and not follow me. Satan said...I will...I will.......I will....and took A PATH AWAY FROM GOD. This is what evil is. You said...not good. That is close to what I say. But I think the Bible paints a clear picture of paths. Any time you sin..your taking a path away from God.

Ok..lets move to the garden.

Adam was made..and he was made "good". Adam was bind to the evil path and only knew of the good path. Notice the tree is called...knowing good and evil.

God said...Adam...do not eat from this tree. You can do anything you want...but do not eat from this tree. Now Adam..if you eat from the tree...your saying you want your will over My will.

satan was there..wanting adam to follow him down that path. Adam didn't know of it as a evil path. All he knew was God said do not eat.

Adam ate...telling God he wanted his own will over Gods will. This opened the eyes so of adam to evil. Adam still knew of good, but the power of sin controled him now.


Sin is always like this. Being that we are talking about a man...we will use sin nature. Our sin nature is a controling force. I have tons of verse..but it is late and I need to go to bed.

anyway...sin is not a event alone. In other words...to murder is to hate...to wish one were dead...to think about killing them...to plan on ways to kill..and the action of murder itself. This whole path is away from God...not just the murder.

anyway..you see it as..."not good". which is close to..a path away from good...or God.


More to write on this...but i need to go.


In Christ..James

 

No

God is Good and all goodness comes from Him.

 

Jarthur, thanks for your post. I was not saying evil is "not good' but the absence of good just as blindness is the absence of sight. I am not denying evil, just saying evil is not a self-sustaining thing in and of itself.

I have to make these distinctions in my ministry to explain occult and New Age worldviews of evil to others, and these views are quite different from the biblical view. So I have to think about this stuff all the time.

Well, guess we got a little off the topic a bit.

I'm leaving for PA in the morning to speak at a conference, so I won't be able to come to the BB for a few days. :wavey:

 

When God said to Adam thou shalt not eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, was that good?

When God give all of His commandments were they not good?

He said when He created the earth and man all those things and said that it was good and very good, was that not good?

If not good then what was it?