Allan said:
Have I stated that tithing is a NT command? No, I said tithing is a principle on which we are to build the foundation of our giving.
Can you really prove even this assertion? I see nothing in the Bible that in any way obligations
Christians to tithe of
monetary income to a
church. The inference is based on conjecture and tradition.
There is nothing in the Bible about tithing in the form of money.
There is nothing in the Bible about tithing from a regular source of income.
There is nothing in the Bible about tithing to a church.
Allan said:
Of course it is. Now go back and look up to what it refernces - the OT and more specifically that which corrisponds [sic] to from where their living/food came (tithes and sacrificail [sic] offerings);
The passage still does not say tithes. It says that those who minister at the altar should partake of the altar. It does not say tithes. If we want to infer a tithes and offerings specifically (as it references the Law) we would also have to justify
not inferring more specificity about exactly what the priests received at the altar: annual tithes of crops from the Temple storehouse chambers and livestock for food and burnt offerings. One cannot simply infer a "tithe" without inferring the exact context of the tithe laws. Since the text does not mention a tithe, the principle is merely about sustenance from the source.
Allan said:
Paul references this as a 'principle' for us to understand how to care for the ministers of His word to His Church body. Thus the verse 14 is not a command either but a principle that is understood by a mature Church.
It is a principle about supplying the needs of ministers, but it has nothing to do with a tenth of one's monetary wages, which is found nowhere in the Bible.
Allan said:
Thus my point, there is no command to pay a pastor but a principle that is based off the OT commands. So it is with tithing - it is a priniple.
There
is a command to pay an elder who labors in the Word and doctrine. There is no command (or "principle") of "tithing" in this passage.
Allan said:
Notice that he states the NT is 'silent' regarding the tithe. The argument is often made that the silence illstrates it was something commonly accepted but the NT writers were encouraging Christ's follows to not only tithe which was also seen and spoken of as 'giving'.
"Tithing" and "giving" are not synonyms. The silence of tithing in the NT is
not an assumption that it existed in the church. Since the church consisted of both Jews and Gentiles, the apostles would likely have had to educate the Gentiles about tithing. However, I have no doubt that many Jewish church members before the destruction of the Temple in A.D. 70 still brought their tithes of crops and livestock of the increase of their harvest every three years to the Levites who delivered them into the storehouse chambers, and that they assembled in Jerusalem every year at the Feast of Tabernacles and brought their tithes of crops and livestock to eat and share with Levites and foreigners. There is simply no justification for the idea that the Jews gave their harvest tithes to the Temple while also giving tithes of monetary wages to the church, nor that they replaced the former with the latter. There is simply
nothing in the Bible about tithing of monetary income to the church. Why do we have to insist that the Bible obligates us in
any way to do this. The Bible simply says concerning church ministry to give freely, cheerfully, and abundantly so that no need is left unmet. If someone
wants to give a regular tenth of his income to the church, that is fine and good; however, one should not feel in
any way obligated to give in this manner as it is not a
threshold of any kind.
Allan said:
Olivencia said:
2. Brown: The tithe in the NT. Hence, the Christian's giving, in contrast to that of the OT saint, is not done with reluctance or compulsion (2 Cor. 9:7), nor is it limited to a tithe of each year's income. Rather it is done cheerfully, voluntarily, systematically, and with open-ended generosity (1 Cor. 16:1 f.; 2 Cor. 9:6-9) (NIDNTT 3:854, Tithe).
Again, nothing there that dismisses tithing at all but actually validates my point again and also previous comment on calling it 'giving'. All of these simply acknowledge the spiritual maturity that goes beyond the law and into grace and faith and thus encourages us to give more.
Thus Pauls illistrate [sic] of sowing small reaping small, sowing big reaping big. We are not to continue in little faith but continue on toward greater faith.
Your bolded statement is really the whole message of giving in the NT. The commentary is wrong. There is
nothing in the NT that in
any way equates giving to the ministry to any form of "tithe." I agree with the commentary's statement about "cheerfully, voluntarily, systematically, and with open-ended generosity." However, the commentary is wrong in that the OT tithe was
not of each year's
income. It was the tenth part of the annual
increase of the
harvest, and it was
always only crops and livestock no matter what kind of economic system was in place. If any kind of rough equivalent could be drawn in terms of money, it would not be of
income but of
revenue.
Allan said:
Everything you gave above shows that the NT is somewhat silent on it mandate.
Because there is no "tithe" mandate for Christians.
Allan said:
But neither does it negate a tithe either.
Heb 7:5 And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have
a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:
Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity
a change also of the law.
Heb 7:18 For there is verily
a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
Since there is no practicing Levitical priesthood government, there is no need for tithes to sustain them. The tithe command is now canceled. We are no longer obligated to give tithes of crops and livestock from the land of Canaan to Levites and priests.
Allan said:
Our problem shouldn't be about whether or not to give 10% but whether or not we will give more
There is no realistic way to draw an accurate comparison, if one had to be made, between the annual increase of a harvest and one's monetary income. It would be good if everyone gave more than 10% of their income for the ministry. However, 10% of one's monetary income is not the context of the
tithe in the Bible. Using the term
tithe to refer to an action of giving 10% of one's monetary income to a church confuses and jeopardizes the context of the term in the Bible.
