Christians are not required to tithe

[Beth]

yes

When you use the word tithe, you do mean tenth, right? The word tithe means tenth. If you give a tenth of your income, you could call it "giving a tithe of your income," but to use the word tithe as a verb sounds like a following of the Old Testament tithe laws that defined who was to tithe, of one one was to tithe from, where the tithes were to go, when the tithes were to be distributed, and who were to take the tithes--all of which we do not obey today.

Forgive me if I get annoyed by the blurred use of the word tithe with the word give or gift:saint:

I've noticed that the word "tithe" is redefined as giving. I personally don't have a problem with that, as long as there is the understanding that tithing was part and parcel of the Old Covenant, and that the person really means giving. We have a separate bank account for giving, but do label it tithing. But it isn't tithing, not in the Old Covenant sense. Absolutely the New Covenant is strong in giving...I've been noticing lately when studying Paul's letters how much of the giving was done church to church to the brethren who had need.

Beth

 

[Harold Garvey]

Nice dodge.

Everything that the scribes and Pharisess said to do is to be done. The Lord Jesus specifically mentioned Moses' seat. They would have said to be circumcised. Do you tell people to be circumcised?

BTW it is not hijacking the thread. Tithing is an Old Covenant command as is circumcision. So don't try to make an escape route out of your misguided theology that isn't there.

So you think it's misguided theology to give towards the work of God?

Jesus' rebuke to them was they sat in the seat they were not worthy to sit in.

Jesus' rebuke was also they demanded the circumcision of the foreskin when actually they needed a heart circumcision.

No "dodge" there, just plain theology without all the "attachments" to it.

Abusing the grace of God is done when one "dodges" the moral implications of the Law. This is done when one fails to see the differences between the moral obligations of the Law and the fulfillment of the ceremonial aspect of the Law by Christ.

Giving so others might here the Gospel is the highest moral implication we have under grace. Failing to see this ultimately sends many souls to a devil's ell that might have been saved if people would give and stop bickering over the term "tithe"!

 

[Harold Garvey]

There is no New Covenant command to tithe. We are under the New Covenant not the Old Covenant. The "entire" Old Covenant has been abrogated (Hebrews 8:13).

So you think it's ok, under grace' to have other gods before God now that the Law has been "abrogated"?


I really don't think that is what you meant.

 

[Harold Garvey]

But he was talking to pharisees who were supposed to tithe.

Jesus was rebuking them for forgetting judgement, of themselves, and mercy towards others, even though they tithed very expensive things as these spices.

 

[Harold Garvey]

What a nonsense statement to bring into this. Why not cop out and give nothing, then?

Why not give tithes of all and many offerings and watch God give back more than you could store?:godisgood:

I see no "cop out" in that, but if.........

 

[Harold Garvey]

I've noticed that the word "tithe" is redefined as giving. I personally don't have a problem with that, as long as there is the understanding that tithing was part and parcel of the Old Covenant, and that the person really means giving. We have a separate bank account for giving, but do label it tithing. But it isn't tithing, not in the Old Covenant sense. Absolutely the New Covenant is strong in giving...I've been noticing lately when studying Paul's letters how much of the giving was done church to church to the brethren who had need.

Beth

We give tithes, not pay them.:wavey:

 

[Alcott]

Why not give tithes of all and many offerings and watch God give back more than you could store?

Because I am one who has actually tested God, as the Malachi passage to which you refer, instructs. And does it hold up? No. The coefficient of correaltion fell completely out; the statistical test of hypothesis failed.

 

[Olivencia]

This is getting absurd.

Harold Garvey wrote:

So you think it's ok, under grace' to have other gods before God now that the Law has been "abrogated"?



--> What does the New Covenant command of 1 John 5:21 say?

Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.

The Greek word eidwlon (idol) is defined by Thayer in this passage as a "false god".


So your assertion is baseless.

Olivencia

 

[Jeep Dragon]

Why not give tithes of all and many offerings and watch God give back more than you could store?:godisgood:

I see no "cop out" in that, but if.........

If you are referring to the context of Malachi, it was referring to the priests who were robbing God and the rest of the nation of the tithes and offerings by rerouting tithes away from the storehouse and offering sick and torn animals to God in sacrifices. Both the curses and the blessings mentioned applied only to Israel in the Old Testament. We cannot dogmatically claim that God will curse someone for not "tithing," (money to a church?) nor can we dogmatically claim that God will bless us if we "tithe." (money to a church?)

Even though I do not believe in a New Testament church tithe, I still give more than 10% of my income to the church consistently. I do not even believe that God will bless me for it or give any of it back. I give cheerfully because the New Testament commands cheerful giving.

I do not see anywhere in the New Testament that claims that God will bless or will give back what a believer gives. It is more that "God loves a cheerful giver" rather than "try God to see Him give back more money or more blessings."

In the Old Testament, God set up for the nation of Israel laws with promised blessings and curses attached to make a peculiar people. Israel was severely judged for disobeying laws and severely blessed for obeying them. God fulfilled His promises exactly so that other nations would notice Israel as a peculiar nation and their God as a real God of His word.

We cannot dogmatically take some of the promises that God claimed for Israel in the Old Testament and generalized them to all Christians today, no matter how general and spiritual they sound (Ex: II Chronicles 7:14. Notice the word "land" in there and read the verses around it). We cannot claim that if we do something God WILL do something back for us in return. We should just do things for God out of love and if God blesses us in some way, great.:godisgood:

 

[HankD]

Whatever we do we do out of faith and for the glory of God.
Everything else will go up in smoke.

If we give out of any other motive than love for God, one another and our fellow man it is wood hay and stubble.​

If we give a tithe because the "tithe" is preached as obligatory then it is of little value.​

God will do more with $1.00 given in faith and love than a million given out of obligation because it is worth more than the million.​

If we give a tithe and crow about it then our reward is the "oohs" and "ahs" of the hearers.
If we give a tithe out of love and keep it a secret (as best we can) then the Father which sees in secret will reward us openly.​

There are 3 motives in the hearts of the children of God that the Spirit uses to bring forth gold, silver and precious gems:​

NKJV 1 Corinthians 13:13 And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.​

Everything else is wood, hay and stubble.

HankD​

 

[Doeroftheword]

This was one of my gripes with TBN is they were using this Covenant to encourage people to give to them. I do think you should give by the heart and God will hear your prayers. I think its wrong to force someone to tithe.

 

[Surfer Joe]

Jesus was rebuking them for forgetting judgement, of themselves, and mercy towards others, even though they tithed very expensive things as these spices.

I agree with you. However, the reason he commended them for tithing was because they were supposed to tithe.

 

[Harold Garvey]

Because I am one who has actually tested God, as the Malachi passage to which you refer, instructs. And does it hold up? No. The coefficient of correaltion fell completely out; the statistical test of hypothesis failed.

No, actually God tested you, and YOU failed.

You seem to expect your "payday" in this temporal world. Totally misinformed and mailgned expectations occur when one gives here and doesn't remember we are rewarded there.

May I advise you against being bitter?

 

[Harold Garvey]

This is getting absurd.

Harold Garvey wrote:

So you think it's ok, under grace' to have other gods before God now that the Law has been "abrogated"?



--> What does the New Covenant command of 1 John 5:21 say?

Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.

The Greek word eidwlon (idol) is defined by Thayer in this passage as a "false god".


So your assertion is baseless.

Olivencia

No, actually my ascertian is founded upon the principle that God never "abrogated" the moral aspects of the Law.

If the Law is "abrogated", then why do you use N.T. verses to incorporate what God "abrogated", according to you?

 

[Harold Garvey]

If you are referring to the context of Malachi, it was referring to the priests who were robbing God and the rest of the nation of the tithes and offerings by rerouting tithes away from the storehouse and offering sick and torn animals to God in sacrifices. Both the curses and the blessings mentioned applied only to Israel in the Old Testament. We cannot dogmatically claim that God will curse someone for not "tithing," (money to a church?) nor can we dogmatically claim that God will bless us if we "tithe." (money to a church?)

Even though I do not believe in a New Testament church tithe, I still give more than 10% of my income to the church consistently. I do not even believe that God will bless me for it or give any of it back. I give cheerfully because the New Testament commands cheerful giving.

I do not see anywhere in the New Testament that claims that God will bless or will give back what a believer gives. It is more that "God loves a cheerful giver" rather than "try God to see Him give back more money or more blessings."

In the Old Testament, God set up for the nation of Israel laws with promised blessings and curses attached to make a peculiar people. Israel was severely judged for disobeying laws and severely blessed for obeying them. God fulfilled His promises exactly so that other nations would notice Israel as a peculiar nation and their God as a real God of His word.

We cannot dogmatically take some of the promises that God claimed for Israel in the Old Testament and generalized them to all Christians today, no matter how general and spiritual they sound (Ex: II Chronicles 7:14. Notice the word "land" in there and read the verses around it). We cannot claim that if we do something God WILL do something back for us in return. We should just do things for God out of love and if God blesses us in some way, great.:godisgood:

I have to disagree with your ideas.

My experience in giving contradicts your ideas.

As I have given to the work of God I have seen many blessings as the result, both spiritually and materially.

There was a time when we could not give much towards missions, God blessed. we stepped out on faith and felt prompted to give beyond what we were able to give, God blessed the more!

We now give more now than what our income was then, guess what? God's still blessing!

 

[Harold Garvey]

This was one of my gripes with TBN is they were using this Covenant to encourage people to give to them. I do think you should give by the heart and God will hear your prayers. I think its wrong to force someone to tithe.

From what I know, no one forces anyone to tithe. If they do try to force people to tithe, they are a cult and people should leave.

 

[Harold Garvey]

I agree with you. However, the reason he commended them for tithing was because they were supposed to tithe.

If they were supposed to tithe and the dispensation of grace began with the birth of Christ, since by him came grace and truth, when did the tithe get abolished?

When did the tithe stop? At the onset of grace or after its culmination? And where do we find that the tithe was ended?

 

[Olivencia]

If the Law is "abrogated", then why do you use N.T. verses to incorporate what God "abrogated", according to you?

--> Because they are repeated in the New Covenant. Some Laws God chose to repeat - these are the ones that apply to us. Some Laws God chose not to repeat - these are the Laws that don't apply to us.
For example, God repeated 9 of the 10 Commandments of the Decalogue. The 4th Commandment (the Sabbath) is not repeated thus all the other 9 are to be obeyed while this one has been abrogated.

 

[Alcott]

No, actually God tested you, and YOU failed.

No; it is as I said.

You seem to expect your "payday" in this temporal world.

Nope. However, that IS what the Malachi passage promises if we test God. Since the test fails, the possible conclusions are: 1)the passage is a lie, 2)it only 'works' with crops and livestock, or 3)it is not applicable to us (NT Christians).

Totally misinformed and mailgned expectations occur when one gives here and doesn't remember we are rewarded there.

So if the Israelites did what was instructed, their increase in produce and livestock would still be exactly what is was at the times they were not doing this?

May I advise you against being bitter?

You may, but it will be ignored.

 

[AresMan]

If they were supposed to tithe and the dispensation of grace began with the birth of Christ, since by him came grace and truth, when did the tithe get abolished?

When did the tithe stop? At the onset of grace or after its culmination? And where do we find that the tithe was ended?

The "dispensation of grace" began at the Crucifixion. During Jesus' earthly ministry He was made of a woman and made under the Law to redeem us from the Law (Gal 4:1-9).

The tithe was abolished at the Crucifixion when the veil of the Temple tore in half.

The tithe was abolished by Jesus' priesthood eliminating the necessity of the Levitical priesthood.

Heb 7:5 And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:
Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
Heb 7:18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment [v.5] going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
Heb 7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.