saturneptune
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Confirmation in 2013 of Prophetic Messages
- Thread starter BobRyan
- Start date
Where do you think I got my name from? LOL
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Baptist Confession of Faith - AND Ellen White - RIGHT on the subject of
1. Seventh-day Sabbath given to all mankind in Gen 2:3 - in Eden prior to the faill.
2. RIGHT on the fact that the Sabbath along with the rest of the TEN COMMANDMENTs - Still included in the MORAL LAW of God.
3. RIGHT on the Bible fact that the Sabbath within the TEN Commandments STILL valid for the saints today -
4. RIGHT - on the Bible fact that the MORAL Law that includes the TEN Commandment Sabbath is written on the heart today under the NEW Covenant.
But those who are at war against their own Baptist Confession of Faith - and the Bible on this subject - will object to the Bible teaching listed above - of course.
I think we all knew that.
in Christ,
Bob
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by BobRyan
Yes I recommend those two books - particularly the "Great Controversy" if you are looking for predictions regarding the end of the world.
Trevor -
Certainly that still future event has yet to play out - but lets look at some details.
The Baptist Confession of Faith 1689 (and the one that C.H. Spurgeion edited in the 1800's) both agree that the 4th Commandment Sabbath was given to all mankind in Eden prior to the fall - and is part of the moral law of God today. Ellen White is in agreement with that part of the Baptist document.
In Rev 14:6-12 the 3 angel's messages contrast the mark of the beast - vs the saints of God who "KEEP the Commandments of God and their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12. And in Rev 14 keeping the Commandments of God is placed in direct opposition to getting the mark of the beast - as a key element in the 3 angels Messages.
In the first angel's message the 4th commandment is quoted speaking of "God who made the heavens the earth the seas and the springs of water" in Ex 20:11 the 4th commandment as God wrote it in stone is that God "made the heavens and the earth and the seas".
In the 3 angel's messages we have the commandments of God, the saints, the quote of the 4th commandment and the contrast between the saints and those who receive the mark of the beast.
1Cor 7:19 Paul says "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God".
On all these points - Ellen White and the Baptist Confession of Faith - agree that the Ten Commandments are indeed the Moral law - still applicable to all mankind today.
James 2 - says that ":he who is guilty of breaking one - is guilty of breaking all".
Thus in the Bible itself the contrast is between the Commandments of God vs the mark of the beast in Rev 14. We would not need the additional details God gave to Ellen White for the church - to get that much of our eschatology Biblically correct.
But even so - in 1john 2:3-6 John says that there is no such thing as knowingly choosing to oppose one of Gods Commandments - The (Commandments of God 1John 5:2-4) and yet having a valid claim to have faith in Christ. So John ties the Commandments to faith in Jesus, Knowing Jesus - the Gospel itself. So if breaking vs keeping the commandments of God is the issue we find in Rev 14 - then according to John it is also an issue of Faith in Jesus, of claiming to know and love Jesus - of claiming to be a child of God.
There is no question that breaking the 4th commandment is very much in line with the end time issue of saints that "keep the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" vs those who get the mark of the Beast - according to Rev 14.
But that is only one of the Ten Commandments - another commandment could also be chosen as the key commandment that is the dividing point at the end of time.
However in this case - God has given the information to one of His prophets - that the commandment selected in this case - is the 4th one.
in Christ,
Bob
Yes I recommend those two books - particularly the "Great Controversy" if you are looking for predictions regarding the end of the world.
Trevor -
Certainly that still future event has yet to play out - but lets look at some details.
The Baptist Confession of Faith 1689 (and the one that C.H. Spurgeion edited in the 1800's) both agree that the 4th Commandment Sabbath was given to all mankind in Eden prior to the fall - and is part of the moral law of God today. Ellen White is in agreement with that part of the Baptist document.
In Rev 14:6-12 the 3 angel's messages contrast the mark of the beast - vs the saints of God who "KEEP the Commandments of God and their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12. And in Rev 14 keeping the Commandments of God is placed in direct opposition to getting the mark of the beast - as a key element in the 3 angels Messages.
In the first angel's message the 4th commandment is quoted speaking of "God who made the heavens the earth the seas and the springs of water" in Ex 20:11 the 4th commandment as God wrote it in stone is that God "made the heavens and the earth and the seas".
In the 3 angel's messages we have the commandments of God, the saints, the quote of the 4th commandment and the contrast between the saints and those who receive the mark of the beast.
1Cor 7:19 Paul says "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God".
On all these points - Ellen White and the Baptist Confession of Faith - agree that the Ten Commandments are indeed the Moral law - still applicable to all mankind today.
James 2 - says that ":he who is guilty of breaking one - is guilty of breaking all".
Thus in the Bible itself the contrast is between the Commandments of God vs the mark of the beast in Rev 14. We would not need the additional details God gave to Ellen White for the church - to get that much of our eschatology Biblically correct.
You are welcome to whatever view you choose.
But even so - in 1john 2:3-6 John says that there is no such thing as knowingly choosing to oppose one of Gods Commandments - The (Commandments of God 1John 5:2-4) and yet having a valid claim to have faith in Christ. So John ties the Commandments to faith in Jesus, Knowing Jesus - the Gospel itself. So if breaking vs keeping the commandments of God is the issue we find in Rev 14 - then according to John it is also an issue of Faith in Jesus, of claiming to know and love Jesus - of claiming to be a child of God.
There is no question that breaking the 4th commandment is very much in line with the end time issue of saints that "keep the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" vs those who get the mark of the Beast - according to Rev 14.
But that is only one of the Ten Commandments - another commandment could also be chosen as the key commandment that is the dividing point at the end of time.
However in this case - God has given the information to one of His prophets - that the commandment selected in this case - is the 4th one.
in Christ,
Bob
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Does the SDA keep the commandments of God when their doctors perform abortions on command?
Your SDA church started those hospitals, set the rules of operations for those hospitals, sit on the board of directors of those hospitals, hired those abortion doctors, and continue to allow those abortions.
The SDA church itself fails to keep the commandments of God and therefore is marked by the sign of the beast since he who is guilty of breaking one is guilty of breaking all.
COME OUT OF BABYLON!!!
REPENT OF THE SDA ABOMINATION!!!
Your SDA church started those hospitals, set the rules of operations for those hospitals, sit on the board of directors of those hospitals, hired those abortion doctors, and continue to allow those abortions.
The SDA church itself fails to keep the commandments of God and therefore is marked by the sign of the beast since he who is guilty of breaking one is guilty of breaking all.
COME OUT OF BABYLON!!!
REPENT OF THE SDA ABOMINATION!!!
It's not even that the SDA church fails to keep the commandments of God as all Christians do by nature, which is why we need Jesus, but it is the fact that they blatantly, willingly choose to break the commandments of God by condoning the murder of innocent children.
Sadly, this apathy towards the murdering of innocent life is found throughout many church bodies and is on full display before man and God at our voting booths when Christians yoke themselves together with representatives who condone the barbaric practice of abortion.
Abortion was the first act of aggression against God's commandments by the USA and now abominations against God by the politicians is gaining ground each day in the same sex marriage issue. And yes, Christians are embracing it and continuing to yoke together with representatives who hate God.
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BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Hint - your own link on this subject - admits that anyone performing abortions is doing so against the stated position of the SDA church. Not sure how much easier this point can be for you.
If you are asking if I perform or condone abortions - I do not.
If you are arguing that we should all be keeping the Ten Commandments and condoning abortion on demand is not doing it - I agree and I do not do that.
If you are claiming that we don't need to pay attention to the Ten Commandments - abortion or not - then I differ with you.
If you are asking if the clergy run the Healthcare system started in the 1800's - the answer is that today - they do not - nor did they in the 1970's.
Keep grasping at straws - you have free will and can make very subject on this board about a hospital in Hawaii in the 1970's and some non-SDA doctors if you wish. In the mean time the rest of us need to deal with the actual subject of the thread.
in Christ,
Bob
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Using Targus' ranting as a source of documented fact is not a safe course. His own links point to the fact that the SDA church policy is against those who perform abortions - no matter the ranting.
Which is more than a little "instructive" to the unbiased objective reader.
I don't keep mentioning this - since every thread cannot be focused on Targus' self-defeating methods.
Even so - the fact that both of you seem to be affirming the Moral Law of God - the Ten Commandments in your opposition to abortion -is the extent to which I actually agree with you and that you are showing at least some agreement with the Baptist Confession of Faith - in its affirmation of the Ten Commandments as the moral law of God - still binding on the saints today.
in Christ,
Bob
It's time that you put that particular lie to rest.
All SDA hospitals perform abortions on demand.
"Another poster said that Adventists opposed abortion until 1970. That is when Hawaii legalized abortion and Castle Memorial Hospital, an Adventist institution in Kailua, Hawaii, the poster said, was pressured by its own doctors, and donors, to start offering abortions. At the time, Adventist leaders in Washington indicated they did not oppose the procedure and thus, more Adventist hospitals began offering the procedure."
http://onfaith.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/undergod/2011/01/adventists_and_abortion.html
Neil Wilson, a former president of your SDA conference admitted that the SDA favors abortion.
“Though we walk the fence, Adventists lean toward abortion rather than against it."
http://adventlife.wordpress.com/2012...-nic-samojluk/
No one here is buying the SDA lies.
This is a flat out bald faced lie.
Show us the stated position of the SDA against abortion.
Hint - there is none.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Your own link instructed you that the SDA church does not condone abortion on demand.
Originally Posted by targus at this link - http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=1990751#post1990751
http://adventlife.wordpress.com/2012...-nic-samojluk/
I am not in favor of abortion - but I am also not in favor of your practice of "making stuff up".
In your own link above we have " providing elective abortions also represent a breach of our church “Guidelines on Abortion” which do not condone abortions on demand."
There are details that point to a fallacy in your methods.
1. The author of your own article states he does not have all the facts and cannot tell us what the real story is - only annecdotal stories.
2. He admits that the church forbids abortion on demand.
As I said before – I am not in favor of abortions – and Targus’ own methods appear to be very questionable.
In Christ,
Bob
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
You are at war against your own link - how "surprising"?? You own link admits to the current policy which is
"The Church does not serve as conscience for individuals; however, it should provide moral guidance. Abortions for reasons of birth control, gender selection, or convenience are not condoned by the Church"
Since this thread is about the prophetic gift - and you are bringing in the issue of abortion - we turn to the SDA statements on Abortion that would have existed during the life of Ellen White.
(Which is just about the only way to apply Targus' agenda to this thread)
==================================
Early abortion views
The June 25, 1867, Advent Review and Sabbath Herald contained what apparently was the first statement on abortion to appear in Adventist literature. In an article titled "Fashionable Murder," the author, John Todd, praised the work of the Physicians' Crusade—a late nineteenth-century movement against abortion, which had been widely practiced in America during the early part of that century.
Speaking of abortion, Todd declared, "The willful killing of a human being at any stage of its existence is murder."4
The abortion question was again addressed in the November 30, 1869, issue of the Advent Review and Sabbath Herald. Under the title "A Few Words Concerning a Great Sin" the Review said, "One of the most shocking and yet one of the most prevalent sins of this generation is the murder of unborn infants. Let those who think this a small sin read Psalm 139:16. They will see that even the unborn child is written in God's book. And they may be well assured that God will not pass unnoticed the murder of such children." 5
A Solemn Appeal contained the Adventist press's next reference to abortion. James White edited this book in 1870, while he was president of the General Conference. White excerpted a statement from Dr. E. P. Miller's Exhausted Vitality for inclusion in the book. The quotation he used reflects the strong sentiments of those physicians involved in the crusade against abortion. Miller castigated abortion as a "nefarious business," a "worse than devilish practice," and a "terrible sin." He went on to say, "Many a woman deter mines that she will not become a mother, and subjects herself to the vilest treatment, committing the basest crime to carry out her purpose. And many a man, who has 'as many children as he can support,' instead of restraining his passions, aids in the destruction of the babes he has begotten.
"The sin lies at the door of both parents in equal measure." 6
Kellogg speaks out
What about the "right arm" of the church, the medical work? In his book Man, the Masterpiece, published in 1894, Dr. John Harvey Kellogg argued against the idea that abortion was permissible before quickening. "From the very moment of conception, those processes have been in operation which result in the production of a fully developed human being from a mere jelly drop, a minute cell. As soon as this development begins, a new human being has come into existence—in embryo, it is true, but possessed of its own individuality, with its own future. . . . From this moment, it acquires the right to life, a right so sacred that in every land to violate it is to incur the penalty of death. . . . None but God knows the full extent of this most heinous crime." 7
The statements quoted above verify the little-known fact that historic Adventism was not silent regarding the abortion question. While the church did not directly involve itself in the 40-year battle to legislate anti-abortion statutes in the United States, the evidence shows where these Adventist leaders stood on the issues that crusade raised.
Ellen G. White ... did make a number of strong statements regarding the sanctity of human life. For example, she wrote: "Life is mysterious and sacred. It is the manifestation of God Himself, the source of all life. . . .
"God looks into the tiny seed that He Himself has formed, and sees wrapped within it the beautiful flower, the shrub, or the lofty, wide-spreading tree. So does He see the possibilities in every human being." 8
And in another place she spoke even more directly to the point of protecting innocent human life when she wrote, "Human life, which God alone could give, must be sacredly guarded."9
=================================
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BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Until you read the "details" in my prior post.
Why do you continue to debate against your own link??
BTW - how "instructive" that even in the evidence given for the abortion topic as it would have been applicable in Ellen White's life - you show no interest at all I(since once again - the details do not favor your rant). It informs us that you are not interested in the entire point of this thread - but simply are seeking to derail it.
Why do you continue to debate against your own link??
BTW - how "instructive" that even in the evidence given for the abortion topic as it would have been applicable in Ellen White's life - you show no interest at all I(since once again - the details do not favor your rant). It informs us that you are not interested in the entire point of this thread - but simply are seeking to derail it.
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BobRyan
Well-Known Member
I am not in favor of abortion - but I am also not in favor of your practice of "making stuff up".
In your own link above we have " providing elective abortions also represent a breach of our church “Guidelines on Abortion” which do not condone abortions on demand."
There are details that point to a fallacy in your methods.
1. The author of your own article states he does not have all the facts and cannot tell us what the real story is - only annecdotal stories.
2. He admits that the church forbids abortion on demand.
The fact that both Targus and Steaver seem to be affirming the Moral Law of God - the Ten Commandments in your opposition to abortion -is the extent to which I actually agree with you and that you are showing at least some agreement with the Baptist Confession of Faith - in its affirmation of the Ten Commandments as the moral law of God - still binding on the saints today.
======================
The topic of this thread is prophetic messages (in this case related to health - as God gave them to Ellen White).
Targus argues that any focus that stays on topic is a mere "distraction" to his own agenda and methods.
In your own link above we have " providing elective abortions also represent a breach of our church “Guidelines on Abortion” which do not condone abortions on demand."
There are details that point to a fallacy in your methods.
1. The author of your own article states he does not have all the facts and cannot tell us what the real story is - only annecdotal stories.
2. He admits that the church forbids abortion on demand.
The fact that both Targus and Steaver seem to be affirming the Moral Law of God - the Ten Commandments in your opposition to abortion -is the extent to which I actually agree with you and that you are showing at least some agreement with the Baptist Confession of Faith - in its affirmation of the Ten Commandments as the moral law of God - still binding on the saints today.
======================
The topic of this thread is prophetic messages (in this case related to health - as God gave them to Ellen White).
Targus argues that any focus that stays on topic is a mere "distraction" to his own agenda and methods.
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SDA hospitals perform abortion.
It is a FACT.
Where do God's commands allow abortion for any reason?
And why are SDA's so slippery?
Why do they try to hide what the SDA really believes?