Featured Covenant Theology

Thread summary, Covenant Theology is a mistaken view of scripture based on speculative rationalism. Theologians invented an unscriptural plan of redemption and then claimed the whole bible supports the fiction.

God reveals He planned before creation for redemption because the Lamb of God was known before the foundation of the world. When God chose the Word to be His Redeemer, in effect He corporately chose those His Redeemer would redeem, therefore He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world.

God did make a conditional covenant with Adam, saying eat everything that grows in the garden except from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, or on that day you will surely die. As a consequence, when Adam sinned of his own volition, all mankind was made sinners, separated from God.

From fallen Adam to Abraham, God dealt with mankind under the dispensation of conscience, where people piled up wrath doing what they knew was wrong, but a few found favor in the eyes of God, such as Noah.

With Abraham, God promised to bless his descendants, i.e. those of faith, but not based on bloodline, and Jesus fulfilled that promise. Anyone redeemed by Jesus becomes a child of the promise, regardless of blood line.

National Israel, referring to a group identified by bloodline or geographic location is a fiction, for all Israel refers to children of the promise, believers chosen individually by God and set apart in Christ.

The millennial kingdom will occur on earth with Jesus on the throne of David.

 

Pitchback

Here is an example of the inability to understand truth when viewed through the prism of falsehood.

1) Did I say God does not know the future actions of individuals? Nope. I said God could choose not to know with certainty what we will choose autonomously. Strike One.

2) Yes, I accept the idea of Calvinists that if God knows with certainty what we will choose to do, that choice is predestined. Note that many Arminians reject this view and say that through some mystery, God can know what we will choose yet that does not predestine our choice.

3) Did I say God planned the redeeming work of the Lamb, meaning selection of individuals to redeem, before creation? Nope. Strike two. I said God formulated His plan of redemption which included choosing those who autonomously trust in Christ. Thus those to be redeemed were chosen corporately, i.e. the target group of the redemption plan, before creation, but only during our lives, after we have lived without mercy, are we individually chosen and placed spiritually in Christ through faith in the truth, 2 Thessalonians 2:13.

12 Strings, I have presented my view in detail, please stop misrepresenting what I said over and over. Lets take Peter being sifted by Satan. What did Jesus say? Did He know Peter would fail? Of course. Why do you continue to misrepresent my positions with those that are unbiblical?

You failed to understand my view that our faith provides our access to God's grace, but does not merit it. Until you come to your senses and at least see that is the biblical view, there seems no way to reach you. Van

 

The difference is:

"Didn't we have huge threads a couple of months ago in which you said God does not know the future actions of his free creatures (ie sins), because if he did then it means he determined them????"

You claimed I said God does not know the future actions of individuals, i.e. sins. He can choose to know they will sin, predestining those sins in the perfection of His knowledge. Jesus knew Peter would sin, i.e. do things that would earn wrath if not covered by God's grace.

We have been over this ground before. If God causes a person to sin, He may not punish that person for his or her "non-volitional" i.e. predestined sin. We know that God is just and this seems just to me, but it certainly is based on speculative rationalism.

Yes, God did not cause Adam to sin, but He did arrange the fall, so I agree with Pink on his assessment. The fall was part of God predetermined plan, but, and this is key, the plan was to allow Adam to volitionally sin, not compel him to do so. God provided the opportunity, i.e. tree in the garden, but He allowed Adam to choose to eat the fruit. Therefore, it is consistent with my understanding of God's justice to punish Adam for his volitional sin. And as a consequence of that just punishment the many were made sinners.

Next you referred to the "redeeming work of the Lamb" but perhaps did not mean that the phrase refers to our individual redemption. I read it as meaning our individual redemption. I certainly did not read it as asking the question did God cause the fall. The answer is God arranged the fall, but did not compel or predestine Adam choosing to sin.

Calvinism as you know does consider the "redeeming work of the Lamb" to be the redemption of elect individuals chosen before creation.
I expect you cannot say you disagree.

Lastly you do not agree with the last statement if you agree with Calvinism. Calvinism says we are saved by grace and given faith, so our faith does not provide our access to God's grace.