Depression

[Lorelei]

Kate,

Is it possible for you to discuss this maturely or should I expect to hear more name calling in the future? It doesn't really bother me except I sure wish you would practice what you preached. You haven't stopped twisting my words yet.

Originally posted by kate B...007:
The writter says their soul is cast down within them, they are filled with tears day and night,he no longer even goes to worship God, he questions himself, why has this happened to me, he questions God, why has this happened to me. But all through it all he remembers God, and repeadtly goes back to what God has done for him in the past, knowing that God will do it again now. He sees that no matter what he is n ot, can not be seperated from the love of God.

So what does he say is the answer? The question isn't whether we experience depression, the question is what is the cure. It can be found right here in the text.

Hope in God;
For I shall yet praise Him,
The help of my countenance and my God.

Originally posted by kate B...007:
Gal.6:2 Bear one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ. 3For if anyone thinks himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceives himself.

How does this prove that God does not heal depression?

Originally posted by kate B...007:
1John4:21 And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God must love his brother also. Can one love their brother or sister in Christ if they are judgemental and critizing them, thinking they themselves are better becasue they don't have what that other person does(depression). Is that the right way of helping a fellow christian who needs support and love?

Does this verse say that the right way is to excuse the condition by calling it a disease and taking a pill?

This IS the right way, and because I love my brother/sister in Christ I want to lead them to the ONLY way out of it!

1 Cor 13:4-7
4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
NIV

Love rejoices with the truth! The truth is that God is THE answer! It is a loving thing to do to share that with them. It is NOT loving to let them stay in their depressed state, by only covering up the symptom and not curing the problem.

For the record, love is also not rude or easily angered and keeps no records of wrongs.

Originally posted by kate B...007:

Luke 18: 10Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. 11The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. 12I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. 13And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. 14I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

Yep, the pharisee thought he was all good and righteous too didn't he?

When did I say I was all good and righteous? Again you are accusing me of things I never said. Did you ever read the verse about bearing false witness against your neighbor?

Originally posted by kate B...007:
Mat.7: 1“Judge not, that you be not judged. 2For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. 3And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? 4Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove the speck from your eye’; and look, a plank is in your own eye? 5Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

Funny you use a verse telling you not to judge your neighbor in order to judge me! I like that one!!

Still, none of these verses talk about depression and how God is not the answer for it.

Originally posted by kate B...007:
2Cor.1: 8For we do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, of our trouble which came to us in Asia: that we were burdened beyond measure, above strength, so that we despaired even of life

Paul 'worried' about his life, according to oyur previous post he was sining becasue he did not trust God for his life.

How many times do I have to tell you I never said it was a sin!

And just why did this happen? What was the answer of coming out of it?

2 Cor 1:9-10
But this happened that we might not rely on ourselves but on God, who raises the dead.
NIV

Originally posted by kate B...007:

David's psalm in hopelessness and depression.
Psalm 143:4 Therefore my spirit is overwhelmed within me, my heart within me is distressed.

1 Kings 19, Elijah depressed.

These do not prove depression is a disease! They prove that people were depressed and GOD freed them from it.

Originally posted by kate B...007:

From the Bible Reader's Companion on this chapter and depression

Is the companion inspired? doesn't this say that even if it is a chemical imbalance that God had a way of dealing with it???

Originally posted by kate B...007:
From the bible, some casues of depression, notes are from the Handbook of Bible Application
Judges 15:18

Why do you keep reading all the companions? Why not just read the word?? Do any of them tell you God is NOT the answer? If so they are wrong, if not you have only helped prove MY point.

Originally posted by kate B...007:
No where were they belittled,and told they didn't have faith in God, no where did God treat them or talk to them like you have here. Nor did He tell anyone else to do so.

I have belittled no one, I have only spoken what God's Word tells me. I haven't even called you vicious! If sharing God's Word with people upsets them I can't help that.

Originally posted by kate B...007:
You say no one has used scripture, yet several times people have asked you questions that require a biblical answer.

WHERE?

Originally posted by kate B...007:
Gal. 5:22
But the fruit of the Spirit is love , joy, peace, longsuffering , kindness , goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness , self-control .

Yeah, see we have all those things within us if we only walk in the Spirit to see them

~Lorelei

 

[Lorelei]

For the record, this is not nor was it ever a couseling situation. I thought it was a thread about depression. I speak matter of factly and to the points, because I am not attempting to assist an individual who is depressed, I am showing what the Bible says about depression.

To accuse me of being unloving to a situation is sort of silly.

You can only guess at how I would handle an actual situation and since we aren't to judge other's motives I think it would benefit this thread if people would not try to do so.

The thread isn't about me, it's about depression and I was hoping about what God's Word had to offer on the subject. Can we get back to discussing that?


~Lorelei

 

[Lorelei]

Originally posted by Laurenda:
Your own statement has contradicted your statement.

Let me clarify my statement then. No one who says depression is a medical illness has used any scripture that supports their claim. The only scriptures they have used confirms that God is the answer for depression.

I never claimed to be infallible nor have I said that I am talented at putting my thoughts into words correctly.


~Lorelei

 

[Lorelei]

Originally posted by Thankful:
You keep saying your side and our side. I don't think there is a division here.

Tell that to the people that feel it necessary to call me names. I have been labeled unloving, startling, insane, vicious, a stiff necked fool, and a twister of Words. Now they are even insinuating that I have lied at worst or at best "am confused".

I honestly don't mind being on the other side of that mentality.

~Lorelei

 

[Thankful]

Actually, the intent of this thread was to relate that Southern Baptist in Oklahoma recognize depression as a problem and are making
counseling available to staff that needs it.

This thread is about counseling. It was not intended to be a debate.

It was posted for information.

 

[Charlotte Marcel]

Originally posted by Lorelei:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Charlotte Marcel:
His illness, his losses were trials, but wasn't enduring the things that his wife and his friends said also a trial?

God bless you all.
Charlotte.

His depression was not an illness.
</font>[/QUOTE]I'm sorry dear, is that what you thought I meant by illness? No dear I meant the boils and scabs. Never the less, you seem to have missed my point entirely. We should show love and compassion to all human beings. God didn't say to love only the loveable, or the ones who agree with us, or the ones who we feel are deserving.

Laurenda, I have been praying for you. I'm glad to see you here. You had us all worried about you. God bless you and keep you close to him in your times of trial. I pray that when Christians can't understand what you go through that you will have the Lord's strength to withstand it. Forgive them, and know that I believe you and I am praying for you. Please pm me if you need a shoulder to cry on or someone to talk to. I am here for you if you need me.

Charlotte

 

[Lorelei]

Originally posted by Thankful:
Actually, the intent of this thread was to relate that Southern Baptist in Oklahoma recognize depression as a problem and are making
counseling available to staff that needs it.

This thread is about counseling. It was not intended to be a debate.

It was posted for information.

I thought this was a sad statement about the state of our churches not a positive one.

My apologies if my comments hi-jacked the purpose of your thread.

~Lorelei

 

[Lorelei]

thought I lost a post

 

[Lorelei]

Originally posted by Charlotte Marcel:
Lorelei, I had hoped that you would answer my questions with the thought I had put into asking them. I know you said that you did, but you did not. I'll take that to mean that I hit too close to home. Don't be so rigid in your position that you aren't willing to accept the posibility that you might be wrong. It's okay to admit that you don't know the will of God for everyone. Nobody does.

I am glad that you have access to knowing how little thought I put into answering them, and I am glad you don't seem to think you know it all.

I ask again, can we refrain from judging other people's motives?

~Lorelei

 

[Abiyah]

Wow! I never read this thread, but it has caught
my attention today!! 8oD It reminds me of when
my children would get up grumpy. I would send
them back to bed and make them get up on the
other side. If that didn't work the first time, we
would do it again, even if they had to crawl out
at the foot of the bed. If that didn't work, I would
make them close their eyes tigtly and snore loudly
before they could get up again. This would always
end in giggles and the day would go better for all.

Anybody need to go back to bed?

Anybody need a good old-fashioned giggle
session?

I know. I know. Some of you are SURE you hate
me now. 8oD

 

[Lorelei]

I have made points that I think are valid and important. If someone is suffering from depression, I hope they don't give up faith and hope in God. I hope they realize that He alone can free them from their struggle, for He alone is our hope.

Prov 3:5-6

5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart
and lean not on your own understanding;
6 in all your ways acknowledge him,
and he will make your paths straight.
NIV

Ps 62:5-6

5 Find rest, O my soul, in God alone;
my hope comes from him.
6 He alone is my rock and my salvation;
he is my fortress, I will not be shaken.
NIV

Rom 5:2-5
And we rejoice in the hope of the glory of God. 3 Not only so, but we also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; 4 perseverance, character; and character, hope. 5 And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out his love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us.
NIV

I am leaving this thread now, God Bless.

~Lorelei

 

[Wisdom Seeker]

You are so funny Abiyah. I sometimes send my son to take a shower and wash his bad attitude right down the drain. It seems to work pretty well.

We should be careful though commenting on the tone this thread has taken. Tempers are already at a high threshold.

Charlotte, that was very sweet of you but I turned my p.m. capability off. I found that people are just a little freeer with their animosity behind closed doors, and I can't handle it. I appreciate the offer though. I see someone quoted you as saying something that you don't seem to have said. That looks suspicious.

 

[Thankful]

Abiyah, that's a good idea! Let's go back to bed

but I don't want to start over.

I feel as if my communcation skills have gone down the drain.

Praise the Lord. He is our Joy and our Strength!

Let this day be a day of Celebration! A Celebration of Life

A celebration of ALL the wonderful Christians here on the BB.

I am thankful that we can discuss our love of God and Praise Him.

 

[christine]

Excuse me, I have read all of what you and the others have written. I find that most all of you have been unkind and judgemental to each other. No, I cannot quote scripture proving either point, because I just got back into the religious aspects a few months ago. I have no doubt forgot more than I remember. I chose to read this, because I am depressed and I have been fighting it on my own for over a year. I have become angry, mean, extremely sad, and lost my interest in everything. I feel like I do not like myself anymore and I don't want my children to suffer. I have had some of these same arguements with myself. I grew up in a christian school and was at the church more than I was home. What drove me away from the church was hypocrites, and judgemental people. I have come back to the church, because I thought that God would help me. I also remembered feeling very content and happy when I was right with God. I have a long way to go, and I won't pretend to be a "good christian", but I want to try. After reading all of this I think I have realized three things:
1. God does not "give" us these things, the devil does. God is there to help us handle what the devil gives us.
2. "God helps them that helps themselves". He gave man the intelligence and understanding to research, study and discover treatment for all ailments, whether they be diseases or not. He gave us science and doctors and allowed them to learn.
3. I have learned a great deal about being self-righteous in the past few years. I used to judge people by "my" standards and my experiences. I have been thru alot lately and it seems to be that everytime I look back at my attitude towards others, I can know say I know how they feel. Before I could not, I had never "been there", so I thought it was a bunch of excuses, or whinning. Sometimes I think he may have allowed me to go thru these things to teach me not to judge.
Thank you for your attention.

 

[Doubting Thomas]

Originally posted by Lorelei:
Exactly, but are you helping them by covering up the problem?!?! The world is trying to cure the incurable! The problem with the world is that they NEED the Lord. They don't want to admit it and their spiritual struggle drags them down. But by fixing the symptom you are hiding the truth from them!

You're right--they don't want to admit it. However, I'm still going to HELP (not cure) their depressive symptoms just as I'll continue to treat non-believers' other medical problems as well. (Or on second thought, perhaps I'll tell them that they just need Jesus and to be well and let them go on their way and that their diabetes, pneumonia, strep throat, osteoarthritis, et al will just take care of itself, those bunch of heathens... )

My mother has been on pills for over 15 years and she can NOT sleep without taking them. I have been trying to share the love of Christ with her, but she doesn't feel she needs it, because guess what, the pill works, at least to cover the pain of spiritual separation from God.

Sadly, many people are like that. They resist the Holy Spirit. Many people do not WANT to listen to the gospel, and if it wasn't the "pills", they'd come up with another excuse. Read the parable of the sower--many have hearts of stone and don't care for spiritual things.
Until they are ready to hear (ie convicted and drawn by the Holy Spirit) no amount of preaching will change their minds. Keep praying for the Holy Spirit to soften her heart.

 

[donnA]

Is it possible for you to discuss this maturely or should I expect to hear more name calling in the future? It doesn't really bother me except I sure wish you would practice what you preached. You haven't stopped twisting my words yet.

I'm not the one who refuses to answer, I'm not the one calling people faithless saying they are of a false religion.

How does this prove that God does not heal depression?

I never ever said said anywhere that God does not heal. I never ever said that medication is all a person needs. Please show where I did.

Does this verse say that the right way is to excuse the condition by calling it a disease and taking a pill?

This IS the right way, and because I love my brother/sister in Christ I want to lead them to the ONLY way out of it!

So you would help thm by attcking them and their faith in God like you have here?

When did I say I was all good and righteous? Again you are accusing me of things I never said. Did you ever read the verse about bearing false witness against your neighbor?

Your telling the rest of us we are faithless, and you are not.

Still, none of these verses talk about depression and how God is not the answer for it

Still putting words in my mouth, I never said that.

How many times do I have to tell you I never said it was a sin!

Again, I didn't say that, your quote does not contain that.

These do not prove depression is a disease! They prove that people were depressed and GOD freed them from it.

Again, putting words in my mouth. What it does prove is that it is not a lack of faith as you ahve said. Unless you want to say all these men had no faith in God and compare them to muslims.

Again, putting words in my mouth. What it does prove is that it is not a lack of faith as you ahve said. Unless you want to say all these men had no faith in God and compare them to muslims.

Scroll up and see.

You can only guess at how I would handle an actual situation and since we aren't to judge other's motives I think it would benefit this thread if people would not try to do so

You have already judged, from your very first post, without listening to anyones story, without caring.

 

[Thankful]

Welcome Christine and thank you for posting your testimony.

You are correct that God expects us to help ourselves, but we must be sure to rely on God first and not depend only on self. We must cast all our cares upon him and He will guide us to help ourselves.

Sometimes I think he may have allowed me to go thru these things to teach me not to judge.

I think you have learned a valuable lesson here.

I made a mistake thinking that God expected me to take care of myself. This thinking led me to do a lot of worrying rather than relying on God.

I went through a period thinking that if people had problems then they were not putting their faith and trust in God, but I learned the hard way, that one can have problems and have a great faith in God. This is the point that we were trying to make in this thread but somehow did not come across.

I think Christians become very defensive when others question their salvation, their faith in God, their trust in God, their belief that the Bible is true. I believe it is very cruel of another Christian to do this.

Perhaps some of us were taking the comments on this thread too personally.

 

[donnA]

I am quit tired of this topic and tring to show God loves even those who have depression and no where in scripture does to them what you have done to them. Nor does He give you premission to do it. I have tried to resonably discuss this with you, you have refused to be resonable, but run in circles, never answering what has been asked of you. You put words inot peoples mouth that they did not say, you do the same with God. You read things into the bible that aren't there, yet refuse to believe it when those in the bible were depressed and yet no where does it say it was a faith problem, you made that up and then tried to impose it on others.
All in all you've acted in an unreasonable manner, unchristian manner, accusing people of what even God does not accuse them of.
So I am through with you,and I pray you necer counsel someone with real problems. I feel for your poor mother.

 

[Wisdom Seeker]

Hi Christine.

I feel the same way about the trial of depression. Hard learned lessons of humility, compassion and how to be appreciative of blessings when they come. This is the common thing that I have found most people say they have learned through this trial. I think that God is teaching these lessons to me by allowing me to deal with this. I lean on Him. Sometimes rather heavily.

God bless you.

 

[Abiyah]

You are right, of course, Laurenda. I was just
amazed at the animosity and judgments I saw as I
would screen by this thread. I have neve seen
anything quite like it here.

People are really hurting here. I pray that
compassion and understanding will be
demonstrated here from now on.

After my own 42 years of depression, you,
especially, Laurenda, know that I have seen the
dark side of this issue as well as experienced
the healing.

Healing does not come automaticaly or quickly,
I know, because the one going through it must
really Go Through It in order to reach that place
where they can be healed.

You precious people who are going through it,
may our God bless you with recovery -- you're
going to Love It!! 8o)