Search it out: Deborah (in the OT) was also called "Blessed among women."
Is she also your blessed mother?
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Devotion to Mary 2
- Thread starter Jkdbuck76
- Start date
Is she also your blessed mother?
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
So are you saying that Mary is not Theotokos and that Jesus is either a man possessed by the Holy Spirit or that there was a seperate being in the Word who amalgamized with a human being creating a hybrid god-man? By denying the Theotokos this is what you must be saying.
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
Yet all the time he was in the womb, and even as an infant he was fully God.
But at the end of his earthly ministry there were 120 in the upper room praying. Mary was just one sinner among 120 with no special status given her.
Doubting Thomas
Active Member
In the OT Davidic kingdom, the mother of the king had a very important office and had great authority. She was the 'gebirah', or "great lady", the "queen mother", and often had a throne on the right side of the king. Through out the books of Kings there is reference made to the mother of the king and several times to the specific office of "queen mother". The book of Hebrews makes it clear that Psalm 45 pertains to Christ. In that particular psalm, we find the queen by the King's (Christ) right hand side (v.9).
It is interesting in the context of Luke 1, in which Gabriel tells Mary that her Son will sit on the throne of David, that soon afterwards we read of the preborn John the Baptist leaping in his mother's womb at the sound of Mary's voice...the "mother of my (Elizabeth's) Lord", as Elizabeth put it. Certainly we can give Mary as much honor as did Elizabeth and little John inside her, as she is the 'queen mother" of the fulfilled Davidic Kingdom...the one through which God chose to become Incarnate.
So while Mary is NOT to be worshipped, as she herself is a creature and not the Creator, God Himself has highly honored her, so His children, who are part of the same spiritual family as Mary through our common relationship through Christ, should do the same.
It is interesting in the context of Luke 1, in which Gabriel tells Mary that her Son will sit on the throne of David, that soon afterwards we read of the preborn John the Baptist leaping in his mother's womb at the sound of Mary's voice...the "mother of my (Elizabeth's) Lord", as Elizabeth put it. Certainly we can give Mary as much honor as did Elizabeth and little John inside her, as she is the 'queen mother" of the fulfilled Davidic Kingdom...the one through which God chose to become Incarnate.
So while Mary is NOT to be worshipped, as she herself is a creature and not the Creator, God Himself has highly honored her, so His children, who are part of the same spiritual family as Mary through our common relationship through Christ, should do the same.
There wasn't enough space for Luke to list all 120 of them (or it wasn't the Holy Spirit's purpose to give such a lengthy list). His purpose was not a secretary taking a roll call at a business meeting. Here is what it says:
Acts 1:13-14 And when they were come in, they went up into an upper room, where abode both Peter, and James, and John, and Andrew, Philip, and Thomas, Bartholomew, and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon Zelotes, and Judas the brother of James. These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren.
First the names of of the disciples are mentioned.
Then the "women," (those that were closely associated with the ministry of Jesus), such as those that were there to bury him.
Then Mary is mentioned in passing.
Also Jesus' brethren are mentioned, a significant addition proving that Jesus was not a perpetual virgin, but that Jesus did have brothers, and that these brothers did eventually turn to Christ. These "brethren" are set apart from the others in that they are associated with Mary, and therefore are Jesus' actual physical brothers related by birth, and not just some generic term referring to the rest of the 120. Otherwise there would be no purpose in mentioning them at all.
Again, there is no special status given to Mary. She is one among many. She is not above the apostles. She is not above the "women." She is not above "the brothers of Jesus," even though she is their mother." She is their equal, for all are equal in Christ. She is not above the 120. All are equal in Christ. She is one sinner among 120, sinners saved by the grace of God. She too is praying just like the others.
Others are not praying to Mary. Mary is praying: all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication.
One of their prayers:
Acts 1:24 And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,
--To choose one to take the place of Judas Iscariot.
Mary did not have divine knowledge. She could not answer prayers. She herself had to pray to God, just like others.
It says "queen" in Psalm 45 - not queen mother. BIG difference that any child could see.
God has shown favor on Mary and greatly blessed her. He did not highly honor her, however. And she is not the "queen mother" nor is she ever stated as such in Scripture.
First I was wrong about the reference to Deborah. It was to Jael, a common person with no royal heritage, and not even a judge.
Judges 5:24 Blessed above women shall Jael the wife of Heber the Kenite be, blessed shall she be above women in the tent.
What did Jael do?
Judges 4:21 Then Jael Heber's wife took a nail of the tent, and took an hammer in her hand, and went softly unto him, and smote the nail into his temples, and fastened it into the ground: for he was fast asleep and weary. So he died.
--With that act the Canaanites were defeated.
Concerning Psalm 45 context is important.
That passage starts earlier in verse six:
Psalms 45:6 Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre.
--He is describing God, as He sits on the throne of His Kingdom. Thus a reference to Jesus Christ in the millennial Kingdom.
The description continues, although somewhat allegorical, for David can only imagine what the Kingdom would be like:
Psalms 45:7-8 Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. All thy garments smell of myrrh, and aloes, and cassia, out of the ivory palaces, whereby they have made thee glad.
--His description of God cannot be denied in verse 7. God alone loves righteousness and hates wickedness.
--The description of the One that sits on the Throne is somewhat allegorical. And yet this is the way we picture Christ.
Psalms 45:9 Kings' daughters were among thy honourable women: upon thy right hand did stand the queen in gold of Ophir.
--Now the verb tense changes to past tense--"were".
David is making a comparison. No matter how much glory the kings of the past may have had, it will be nothing compared to the glory that the Lord Jesus Christ will have. That is the only point that David is making.
[quote[It is interesting in the context of Luke 1, in which Gabriel tells Mary that her Son will sit on the throne of David, that soon afterwards we read of the preborn John the Baptist leaping in his mother's womb at the sound of Mary's voice...the "mother of my (Elizabeth's) Lord", as Elizabeth put it. Certainly we can give Mary as much honor as did Elizabeth and little John inside her, as she is the 'queen mother" of the fulfilled Davidic Kingdom...the one through which God chose to become Incarnate.[/quote]
Read on. Immediately after Elizabeth gave her salutation, this was Mary's answer:
Luke 1:46-47 And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord, And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.
--Her admission that she is in need of a Saviour is an admission that she is a sinner.
God highly honored each one of the Apostles as authors of the NT Scriptures. God uses many individuals in special ways. We ought not to lift one sinner above another. God never intended it to be that way.
Doubting Thomas
Active Member
In the context of the Davidic Kingdom, the "queen" at the King's right hand WAS the "queen mother".
What??? By choosing her above all others to be the one through whom He would become Incarnate God was not highly honoring Mary? Wow...
Also, I guess when Gabriel told Mary she was "highly favored" that somehow this does not mean she was highly honored by God? I think any child would disagree with you. :smilewinkgrin:
Based on her relationship to the true HEIR to the throne of David, she is. I already showed how in the context of Gabriel's announcement to Mary that her Son would sit on the throne of David, we find Elizabeth exclaiming "But why is it granted to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?" and John leaping insider her womb at the sound of Mary's voice...I'd say they were showing her honor.
(The Bible doesn't use the word "trinity" nor the formula "one God in three persons", so I guess we should toss those out as well, huh?)
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
I can really get into this but I will simply state my believe. Mary is the Theotokos (which is a word describing Jesus' nature). Mary Obeyed God and held nothing back. I believe there is a special place in Heaven (as in the wedding feast placement) for her. I even believe she prayed for us while with Jesus and while with John in Turkey. I believe that if she is not in some dormant state (death, sleep) and she is in Heaven that she prays for those of us struggeling like every other believer is doing who is in heaven. I beleive we should strive to be as obedient as she was. She cannot save me nor does she take Jesus' place in any way. I think her statements that are recorded should be the heart of the Christian which is
and
Beyond that I don't know anything. There are no documents about the assumption or dormition save many years after that incident supposidly occured. I believe she, like john the Baptist, will willingly decrease so that Jesus will increase. I think we should use her as a model of how to be, like we do Joseph, Moses, Abraham, etc... and she should be as honored (if not the same; then more and never less) then these other bible hero's. I believe that if we do God's will then we are Jesus' mother, brother, sister, etc... because the Key is obedience to God.
Yes. the Seed of a woman.
Mary the mother of God? So whats next...Jesus had sisters too and you call "make" them the SISTERS OF GOD?!? Repent of this idolatry and don't be moved from simple devotion to Christ and nothing else.
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Good post.
Perhaps this belief leads to Mormonism. Jesus (who is God) had brothers. Did they become the "brothers of God." The Mormons believe that Christ had brothers in heaven, and that Lucifer was one of them!!
I think for the sake of time I will simply quote Revmitchell as I agree with his post: