Devotion to Mary 2

[Thinkingstuff]

If Mary had remained a virgin, then she and Joseph would have been going against God's principles on marriage, it seems to me. Avoiding intimate relations for the duration of a marriage (outside of physical problems) would seem to go against teachings on marriage in the Bible.

You make a good Point Marcia because scriptures explicitly state

The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. 4The wife's body does not belong to her alone but also to her husband. In the same way, the husband's body does not belong to him alone but also to his wife. 5Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer.

Then wouldn't Joseph and Mary be going against this principle?

 

[DHK]

So, did the Holy Spirit go to sleep on the job for 1500 years?

No, read up on the Dark Ages. The Catholic Church has been in the Dark Ages ever since it began--well over 1600 years.

 

[Marcia]

You make a good Point Marcia because scriptures explicitly state....Then wouldn't Joseph and Mary be going against this principle?

This is the first time I thought of this. It is totally unnatural and against God's picture of marriage to make a wife remain a virgin throughout the marriage.

 

[Zenas]

This is the first time I thought of this. It is totally unnatural and against God's picture of marriage to make a wife remain a virgin throughout the marriage.

But this was not a normal family, considering the nature of their firstborn. What man in good concience could be intimate with a woman who gestated and gave birth to the son of God, even if she was his wife? See Ezekiel 44:1-2.

 

[DHK]

But this was not a normal family, considering the nature of their firstborn. What man in good concience could be intimate with a woman who gestated and gave birth to the son of God, even if she was his wife? See Ezekiel 44:1-2.

Ezekiel 44:1-2 Then he brought me back the way of the gate of the outward sanctuary which looketh toward the east; and it was shut. Then said the LORD unto me; This gate shall be shut, it shall not be opened, and no man shall enter in by it; because the LORD, the God of Israel, hath entered in by it, therefore it shall be shut.

Okay. I saw it. So what. What has this to do with Mary?

 

[Marcia]

But this was not a normal family, considering the nature of their firstborn. What man in good concience could be intimate with a woman who gestated and gave birth to the son of God, even if she was his wife? See Ezekiel 44:1-2.

Joseph and Mary were special but they were also just plain ol' people. Why in the world would Joseph not want to have a marital relationship with his wife? I see no problem with that. Mary was not holy or untouchable. The fact she gave birth to Jesus does not lessen her as a human woman and wife.

 

[Zenas]

Ezekiel 44:1-2 Then he brought me back the way of the gate of the outward sanctuary which looketh toward the east; and it was shut. Then said the LORD unto me; This gate shall be shut, it shall not be opened, and no man shall enter in by it; because the LORD, the God of Israel, hath entered in by it, therefore it shall be shut.

Okay. I saw it. So what. What has this to do with Mary?

Ambrose, bishop of Milan, wrote in 391 AD,

Who is this gate (Ezekiel 44:1-2), if not Mary? Is it not closed because she is a virgin? Mary is the gate through which Christ entered this world, when He was brought forth in the virginal birth and the manner of His birth did not break the seals of virginity.

Similarly, Augustine wrote in about 430 AD,

It is written (Ezekiel 44: 2): ‘This gate shall be shut, it shall not be opened, and no man shall pass through it. Because the Lord the God of Israel hath entered in by it...’ What means this closed gate in the house of the Lord, except that Mary is to be ever inviolate? What does it mean that ‘no man shall pass through it,’ save that Joseph shall not know her? And what is this - ‘The Lord alone enters in and goeth out by it,’ except that the Holy Ghost shall impregnate her, and that the Lord of Angels shall be born of her? And what means this - ‘It shall be shut for evermore,’ but that Mary is a Virgin before His birth, a Virgin in His birth, and a Virgin after His birth.

 

[annsni]

Ambrose, bishop of Milan, wrote in 391 AD, Similarly, Augustine wrote in about 430 AD,

That passage is not speaking of Mary's birth canal. The context does not support it nor does the rest of Scripture.

 

[DHK]

Ambrose, bishop of Milan, wrote in 391 AD, Similarly, Augustine wrote in about 430 AD,

They have lots to learn don't they?? :laugh:

 

[Jedi Knight]

Stained Glass Saints :saint: or ordinary people like you and me? :smilewinkgrin:

 

[Doubting Thomas]

I wonder how many of you, who say that Mary "is just an ordinary woman", would also say the Ark of the Covenant was "just an ordinary gold box". (Or that the Temple, full of the Shekinah glory, was just a run-of-mill building.)

 

[ReformedBaptist]

I wonder how many of you, who say that Mary "is just an ordinary woman", would also say the Ark of the Covenant was "just an ordinary gold box". (Or that the Temple, full of the Shekinah glory, was just a run-of-mill building.)

Rather, who is saying with the Scripture that she is blessed and who has gone beyond the Scripture?

 

[billwald]

How does one analyze the relative value of blessings?

 

[DHK]

How does one analyze the relative value of blessings?

Good question. The word can simply translated "happy," or in some cases "favored." Take a look at the Beatitudes in Mat.5:1-12, where the word is used quite often.

 

[Jedi Knight]

I wonder how many of you, who say that Mary "is just an ordinary woman", would also say the Ark of the Covenant was "just an ordinary gold box". (Or that the Temple, full of the Shekinah glory, was just a run-of-mill building.)

Jesus died for people not boxes ,bronze snakes,or temples made with hands. Ordinary people can worship and such the Father seeks.....in spirit and truth. Truth is that if you are praying to ANYONE OR THING other than God you are an idolater and practicing a lie.

 

[sag38]

Jedi, do not be so subtle when you tell the truth?

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Jedi, do not be so subtle when you tell the truth?

The way of the force it is. hmmmmm?

 

[Doubting Thomas]

Jesus died for people not boxes ,bronze snakes,or temples made with hands. Ordinary people can worship and such the Father seeks.....in spirit and truth. Truth is that if you are praying to ANYONE OR THING other than God you are an idolater and practicing a lie.

Truth is, I worship the Holy Trinity and Him only. However, honoring those whom God honors is not idolatry. Neither is requesting prayers from others. (Nice try on the straw man argumentation, though)

 

[annsni]

Truth is, I worship the Holy Trinity and Him only. However, honoring those whom God honors is not idolatry. Neither is requesting prayers from others. (Nice try on the straw man argumentation, though)

Honor is different than adoration. It is different than veneration. What the Catholic church does with Mary is way more than honor.

 

[Revmitchell]

Truth is, I worship the Holy Trinity and Him only. However, honoring those whom God honors is not idolatry. Neither is requesting prayers from others. (Nice try on the straw man argumentation, though)

No strawman...the level at which you honor Mary is excessive and idolatry