It's a very good thing that scripture does not tell us where babies who die in infancy go, if it did we would have kooks killing babies to save them, or the murder mills (abortion clinics) would be the greatest evangelist tool of all time.
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Did Christ Atone for ALL humans?
- Thread starter Robert William
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It's a very good thing that scripture does not tell us where babies who die in infancy go, if it did we would have kooks killing babies to save them, or the murder mills (abortion clinics) would be the greatest evangelist tool of all time.
No, no, and no. 'God is no respecter of persons' is always used in the context of 'Jew vs. Gentile' in the scriptures.
:thumbs: Amen, I forgot that one.
Actually Robert, you were basically correct though:
34 And Peter opened his mouth and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35 but in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is acceptable to him. Acts 10
...but it's still in the context of Jew vs. Gentile. (Peter got called onto the carpet Acts 11 to explain his actions in going to the Gentiles.)
34 And Peter opened his mouth and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35 but in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is acceptable to him. Acts 10
...but it's still in the context of Jew vs. Gentile. (Peter got called onto the carpet Acts 11 to explain his actions in going to the Gentiles.)
convicted1
Guest
Brother Tony?? ^^^^^^^^^
What do you think about a God who sends two bears to kill 42 LITTLE children for calling his prophet baldy, is that loving?
2Ki 2:23 And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
2Ki 2:24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
2Ki 2:25 And he went from thence to mount Carmel, and from thence he returned to Samaria.
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Tony, because scripture tells us we are ALL born under the curse of sin, we know that nobody is born sinless, then we also know that innocent there can not mean sinless, right. Zero sin will enter the Kingdom.
Question: Is a human able to make a free will choice and embrace the gospel without a miracle happening first?
If you say yes, then you need to go and study to find out what pelagianism is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpdUGdqOLCw&feature=user
If you say no, then please explain to us what the miracle is and what does it do to the human.
I have cited this Alan E. Kurschner quote before:
"These (synergists) will sincerely say, 'I believe in grace alone.' but in reality, they believe that grace is not alone (sufficient), but that the human will is necessary for regeneration to be effective.
It could be said that these individuals are 'functional' Arminians because even though some will deny the label, their theology functions synergistically; thus how they identify themselves is inconsistent with what they teach and believe."
No. Only the children of Zion above are able to choose between good and evil.
....It behoveth you to be born from above; the Spirit where he willeth doth blow, and his voice thou dost hear, but thou hast not known whence he cometh, and whither he goeth; thus is every one who hath been born of the Spirit.` Jn 3:7,8 YLT
26 But the Jerusalem that is above is free, which is our mother.
27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; Break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: For more are the children of the desolate than of her that hath the husband.
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise.
29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, so also it is now. Gal 4
:thumbs:
Amen, I very sadly say I see that in a very large majority of modern preachers.
If you say yes, then nobody will end up in Hell, because those who's sins have been atoned can't end up in Hell, if you say no, then there is no sacrifice and everybody ends up in Hell.
Condition before answering: First state yes or no, then give an answer, thanks.
That is exactly like the question, can God commit suicide? If yes, He is not eternal, and if no, He is not all powerful. It is a flawed question.
Christ died for those whom the Father gave Him, exactly how He prayed to His Father the night before He was crucified.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
If Jesus Christ died for ALL, assuming ALL means every person that ever lived, then every person that ever lived would be saved!
But Jesus Christ died only for those chosen in Jesus Christ before the foundation of the world, only for those that God gave to Jesus Christ. {Ephesians 1:3-6, John 6:37}
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OldRegular
Well-Known Member
If it were not for Sovereign Election no one would be saved!
:thumbsup: Amen
Then you agree only a few were chosen before the earth was created. right.Joh 17:9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
Joh 17:10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.
Joh 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
Joh 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
Joh 17:13 And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.
Joh 17:14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
Joh 17:15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
Joh 17:16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
Joh 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
Joh 17:18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
Joh 17:19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
Joh 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
Joh 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
PreachTony
Active Member
Apologies, I've been out of town for the weekend.
What brought the curse upon us?
One argument would say "Our sin." Then again, we know from scripture that "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made." (John 1:1-3) Since the curse had to come from somewhere, one could use that very scripture to argue that the curse came from God. If man has no will of his own, then man could not create the curse, so it had to come from God. However, if man has a will of his own, which I believe he does and I believe it was evidenced in Adam choosing to partake of the fruit, then man caused his own separation from God. The Cal argument has been the man has free will, though that freedom is limited and bounded by man's sin nature. If that is true, then Adam was created in sin, and his will was bound up by his sin nature. But why would God create something in sin and then turn around and call it "very good," as He did all creation after His work was accomplished?
So if the curse is upon all of us to the point that none are born sinless, and, as RW points out, sin cannot enter the kingdom, then the logical conclusion, regardless how he tries to couch the argument that the Word does not tell us the final destination of babies dying in infancy, is that babies who die are hell bound. I guess under those circumstances I could see a Calvinistic argument of Election, as that's the only way you could console parents whose child died in infancy, to tell them the child was one of the Elect. But, even the Calvinist has to admit they cannot be sure they are one of the Elect. I do not say that to discredit a Calvinist who has an experience of grace. Sovereign election without having an experience of grace means you really cannot have certainty of salvation.
Mans Depravity= Both REAL Arminians and Calvinists Agree
It is man who is deceitful (Jer. 17:9), full of evil (Mark 7:21-23)
loves darkness (John 3:19),
does not seek for God (Rom. 3:10-12),
is ungodly (Rom. 5:6),
dead in his sins (Eph. 2:1),
by nature a child of wrath (Eph. 2:3),
cannot understand spiritual things (1 Cor. 2:14),
a slave of sin (Rom. 6:16-20)
Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me (Psalm 51:5)
13 reasons semi pelagians/pelagians are wrong !
1)man has a heart that is deceitful (Jer. 17:9)
2)man is full of evil (Mark 7:21-23)
3)man loves darkness (John 3:19),
4)man does not seek for God (Rom. 3:10-12),
5)man is ungodly (Rom. 5:6),
6)man is dead in his sins (Eph. 2:1),
7)man by nature a child of wrath (Eph. 2:3),
8)man cannot understand spiritual things (1 Cor. 2:14),
9)man is a slave of sin (Rom. 6:16-20)
10)man is sinful in the womb and conceived in sin(Psalm 51:5)
11)man cannot do good(Romans 3:10)
12) man hates God (Rom 8:7)
13)man loves sin (1 John 3:19)
Though I am a Calvinist, I would have to agree with this somewhat.
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