Did Jesus Really Die For Judas?

[AustinC]

Why then are you making exceptions?
You have two exceptions.
1) Not repenting
2) Not believing

For those two sins you declare that Jesus blood is not effective. "Those who refuse will be damned" is your words. You make exceptions and thus you make your own assertion false.

bump... @SavedByGrace
You chose not to respond. Perhaps you missed it.

 

[SavedByGrace]

bump... @SavedByGrace
You chose not to respond. Perhaps you missed it.

See the link in # 122

 

[AustinC]

See the link in # 122

I did, you just gave a link that never answers the question.
Pony up and actually write up your response in this thread.
I state again:

Why then are you making exceptions?
You have two exceptions.
1) Not repenting
2) Not believing

For those two sins you declare that Jesus blood is not effective. "Those who refuse will be damned" is your words. You make exceptions and thus you make your own assertion false.

 

[SavedByGrace]

I did, you just gave a link that never answers the question.
Pony up and actually write up your response in this thread.
I state again:

Why then are you making exceptions?
You have two exceptions.
1) Not repenting
2) Not believing

For those two sins you declare that Jesus blood is not effective. "Those who refuse will be damned" is your words. You make exceptions and thus you make your own assertion false.

Jesus says in Mark 1.15 to REPENT and BELIEVE. two conditions

 

[Reformed1689]

this MIGHT help you Is Saving Faith A Gift?

Don't need to read the link. Yes, saving faith is a gift.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Don't need to read the link. Yes, saving faith is a gift.

Do you think that you know everything? Or are you afraid to read the link?

 

[robycop3]

In studying what Jesus told us about the Last Days ... "Like the days of Noah" ... I've come to understand that this includes the nephilim.

Is it possible Judas could have been one of these?

I mean, how do you have such a close personal relationship with Jesus Christ and be unable to respond to the Spirit ... unless you have no spirit.

7 of the 8 people boarding the Ark were 100% human. Ham's wife wasn't. They beget Canaan; father of the 7 tribes The Son later smites ahead of the Joshua led Hebrews.

I'm not stating as fact ... but reconciling the free will vice predestination in this context brings me to this possibility.

thread creep ... but since I've learned about Daniel's prophesy of Messiah's being cut-off ... it's amazed me the Pharisees & Sadducees both failed to recognize Messiah was standing in front of them as they knew THAT was the year Messiah was to be "cut-off" per Daniel 9. (or whatever is the Torah designation)

Ham's wife wasn't human? What kinda nonsense is that??????????????????????????????????

 

[Two Wings]

Ham's wife wasn't human? What kinda nonsense is that??????????????????????????????????

she was a nephilim. Not 100% human as was Noah and the rest of his family. the nephilim seed was allowed to pass on the Ark ... I presume so that The Son could demonstrate the type/shadow of the End with the conquest of Canaan. (Ex 23, I don't recall the specific verse off hand, but the angel sent by God who could forgive transgression. That is my understanding ... could be way off ... or spot-on accurate, but that's how the nephilim survived The Flood.

 

[Silverhair]

So you are saying Jesus did NOT say he laid his life down for the sheep?

You have hung your hat on a single verse and ignore everything else. My question for you is "who are His sheep"? As I understand it they are the ones that follow Him. Those would be the ones that have heard the gospel and believed it, as in Eph 1:13 or Rom 10:14. You know the ones that actually make a free will choice like in Joh 3:18.

So yes Christ Jesus did lay down His life for His sheep which are all those that freely trust in Him for salvation.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I have seen it argued in other places that Jesus died for all including Judas. To support this theory they have used the scenes of the Last Supper.

Typically they point to Luke 22:19-20 and point out that Jesus says, “This is my body which is broken for you” (emphasis mine). They point out the same for the cup. The argument goes that since Judas was still in the room Jesus included him in the atonement. But this is a gross mishandling of Scripture and taking things way out of context.

First, it ignores other passages on the Last Supper. In Matthew and Mark’s account, it says his blood is poured out for many, not all.

Second, if we look in John’s Gospel, Jesus clearly states that “you” does not include all twelve disciples. In John 13:18 while Jesus is washing His disciple’s feet, he states, “I am not speaking of all of you, I know whom I have chosen.”

In the verses preceding verse 18, Jesus is speaking using the same term “You” that he uses in Luke 22. But he clarifies that he is speaking to a certain subset of the people in the room and not everyone.

We must look at all of Scripture without our presuppositions to come to the truth. Jesus did not die for all and Scripture does not claim that he does. In fact, Jesus stated he only died for the sheep.

So was Jud one of the sheep being given to Christ?

 

[Salty]

Six hour warning
This thread will be closed no sooner than 1155 pm EST / 855 pm PST

 

[Two Wings]

God is in control. period.

Whether we understand or not doesn't affect that statement ... that truth.

iron sharpening iron is Biblical ... I hadn't really thought much about this topic. IDK if I'll spend too much time with it after the close of this thread, but it's given me something else to ponder. Revelation in due time.

 

[Reformed1689]

Do you think that you know everything? Or are you afraid to read the link?

No, I just know what I think on this issue and believe me, I was on your side of the issue previously and found it to be incompatible with Scripture.

 

[Reformed1689]

So was Jud one of the sheep being given to Christ?

No

 

[Reformed1689]

You have hung your hat on a single verse and ignore everything else. My question for you is "who are His sheep"? As I understand it they are the ones that follow Him. Those would be the ones that have heard the gospel and believed it, as in Eph 1:13 or Rom 10:14. You know the ones that actually make a free will choice like in Joh 3:18.

So yes Christ Jesus did lay down His life for His sheep which are all those that freely trust in Him for salvation.

Other than some nuances we agree. Yes, he laid his life down for the elect. Glad you agree.

 

[SavedByGrace]

No, I just know what I think on this issue and believe me, I was on your side of the issue previously and found it to be incompatible with Scripture.

someone deceived you! I will keep pray for you

 

[Reformed1689]

someone deceived you! I will keep pray for you

Unless you think Scripture is deceiving, nobody deceived me. It is what Scripture plainly teaches.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Unless you think Scripture is deceiving, nobody deceived me. It is what Scripture plainly teaches.

LOL!!! the very passage that you refer to in your OP from Luke, shows beyond any doubt to those who don't have a theological BIAS, that Jesus died for Judas. End of!

 

[AustinC]

Jesus says in Mark 1.15 to REPENT and BELIEVE. two conditions

Yet, you wrote in post #110, "Jesus Christ has shed His Blood for "everyone without exception".

Now, you make two exceptions.
One, they must believe and two, they must repent.

One of your assertions cannot be true. Since you make two exceptions, it must be concluded that in your position Jesus shed his blood for everyone...except those who don't repent and don't believe.

Therefore, you limit the atonement or you make the atonement entirely ineffective for all persons who do not believe or repent.

sbg, you are in a biblical pickle of your own making.

 

[Reformed1689]

LOL!!! the very passage that you refer to in your OP from Luke, shows beyond any doubt to those who don't have a theological BIAS, that Jesus died for Judas. End of!

Except that it doesn't say that. You are reading that into the passage. That does not deal with who Jesus died for as @Revmitchell pointed out. And he is hardly on my side of the issue.