Do Calvinists Distort the Gospel?

[BobRyan]

Neither monergism nor synergism are the actual gospel. It is simply a game of semantics that express to whom and how the gospel is applied. I certainly do not claim a label when it comes to the gospel. The only label I care to have is that of an old sinner saved by grace. Labels destroy the simplicity of the gospel.

Jesus said that even little children can understand (Mark 10:15, Luke 18:17). I choose to believe that it is easier for a child to believe that Jesus loved everyone of them instead of choosing to believe that it is easier for a child to believe that He chose some of them to live with Him for eternity and chose others to go to a Christ-less eternity.

Amen --
I choose to believe that when God said "God so loved the WORLD and not just the FEW of Matthew 7" John 3:16 that He meant it.
I choose to believe that when God said "He is not willing for ANY to perish but for all to come to repentance" 2 Peter 3 -- He meant it.
I choose to believe that When God said "he came to His OWN and His OWN received Him not" John 1:11 -- He meant it.
I choose to believe that when God said "Jerusalem Jerusalem who kills the prophets.. how I WANTED to spare your children.. but you would not" Matt 23 He meant it.
I choose to believe that when God says "we BEG you on behalf of Christ be reconciled to God" 2 Cor 5 - He means it.
I choose to believe that when God says "God is NOT partial" Rom 2:11 - He meant it

 

[BobRyan]

I have revised my post:

The wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God; neither will people, “Christians,” who only profess faith, but do not have changed lives.

Because the inner part of man does not sin he has eternal security .

Paul condemns that idea in 1 Cor 6 and in Romans 2
John condemns that idea in 1 John 3
Christ condemns that idea in Matt 7 "by their fruits you shall know them"

 

[Theodore A. Jones]

And, the very high ground you stand upon which condemns 95% of Christendom as, "built upon incorrect soteriological conjecturer" is???

The foundational soteriological assumptive of both Arminianism and Calvinism is the erroneous conjecture that the sin of murdering Jesus Christ is a direct benefit rather than an accountable sin by law. An individual's salvation is predicated his faith to obey the law Paul references."For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous." Rom. 2:13
You are wasting your time arguing over the carcass of a dead religious horse.

 

[BobRyan]

The foundational soteriological assumptive of both Arminianism and Calvinism is the erroneous conjecture that the sin of murdering Jesus Christ is a direct benefit rather than an accountable sin by law.

Murder is sin. God did not "need Roman soldiers to murder or Jews to hate Christ" in order to save mankind.

Sin does not "save"

 

[Theodore A. Jones]

Murder is sin. God did not "need Roman soldiers to murder or Jews to hate Christ" in order to save mankind.

Sin does not "save"

Neither have I said it does.

 

[BobRyan]

Christ saved mankind IN SPITE of the Jew's efforts to stop him and the Roman efforts to stop Him.

Satan used mankind to tempt Christ not to save mankind -- Satan caused those whom Christ came to save... to hate Christ and to torture Him.

 

[Iconoclast]

The foundational soteriological assumptive of both Arminianism and Calvinism is the erroneous conjecture that the sin of murdering Jesus Christ is a direct benefit rather than an accountable sin by law. An individual's salvation is predicated his faith to obey the law Paul references."For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous." Rom. 2:13
You are wasting your time arguing over the carcass of a dead religious horse.

Hello taj,

Could you clarify for us how you see works in the salvation of sinners?

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Six Hour Warning
This thread will be closed sometime after 12 AM Pacific.

 

[Rob_BW]

Six Hour Warning
This thread will be closed sometime after 12 AM Pacific.

But it was just getting interesting.

 

[TCassidy]

But it was just getting interesting.

Start a new one.

 

[Theodore A. Jones]

Hello taj,

Could you clarify for us how you see works in the salvation of sinners?

"For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous." Rom. 2:13 NIV But that law Paul has referenced is not a part of the written code.
I've previously posted this on several occasions. If you do not agree with Paul's soteriological paradigm contact him with your objections.

 

[Pastor_Bob]

I asked, "Can they change their condemnation by simply believing in Him, as Jesus said two verses prior (John 3:16)?"

No! The cold, dead, heart of stone does not, in fact, will not, believe.

I'm afraid your argument is with Jesus, my friend. He said they [we] could if they only believe.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Why would Jesus tell us we could have eternal life if only we believe if we "in fact, will not, believe"?

 

[TCassidy]

I'm afraid your argument is with Jesus, my friend. He said they [we] could if they only believe.

No, my argument is with you. Jesus knows who will believe. "My sheep hear my voice and follow me."

Why would Jesus tell us we could have eternal life if only we believe if we "in fact, will not, believe"?

Because He gives a new heart of faith to His sheep.

 

[Iconoclast]

"For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous." Rom. 2:13 NIV But that law Paul has referenced is not a part of the written code.
I've previously posted this on several occasions. If you do not agree with Paul's soteriological paradigm contact him with your objections.

law keeping does not save a sinner.....The only law keeper kept it 100% for everyone who believes

 

[Theodore A. Jones]

law keeping does not save a sinner.....The only law keeper kept it 100% for everyone who believes

I said if you disagree with Paul contact him with your complaints. Isn't that what I said?

 

[Iconoclast]

I said if you disagree with Paul contact him with your complaints. Isn't that what I said?

TAJ,
Paul understood what he meant, and I do not have any problem with his teaching...it is your understanding that is being called into question.
I am asking you for clarification because the gospel is in question here,
From what I am seeing you do not have a handle on it...clarify if you can

 

[BobRyan]

"For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous." Rom. 2:13 NIV But that law Paul has referenced is not a part of the written code.
I've previously posted this on several occasions. If you do not agree with Paul's soteriological paradigm contact him with your objections.

Paul says in Eph 6:2 that that law is the one where the 5th commandment "is the first commandment with a promise"
Paul says in Romans 7 that that law includes "do not covet".
In James 2 we are reminded that it contains all the Ten Commandments.
In Romans 13 Paul lists all the commandments related to our duty to our fellow man - as unchanged from Christ's pre-cross list of the same in Matthew 19

 

[delizzle]

No, my argument is with you. Jesus knows who will believe. "My sheep hear my voice and follow me."

Because He gives a new heart of faith to His sheep.

I am confused. If what you are saying is accurate, why would Jesus ever bring up verses like John 3:16 and avoid the confusion? It would have been better for Him to say, "For God so loved the Elect, He gave His only begotten son so that when the elect believes in Him, they will have everlasting life."

 

[Rippon]

get people to level where they can graduate to a more formal version to use!

Why? More form-oriented doesn't = more accurate. You should know that by now. And you should know that you can't resort to altering your terminology to word-for word or more literal.

 

[TCassidy]

verses like John 3:16 and avoid the confusion?

The only one confused is you. John 3:16 is true. Every word of it.

"For God so loved the Elect, He gave His only begotten son so that when the elect believes in Him, they will have everlasting life."

So you don't believe God can love everybody? Even sinners?