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Do You believe in God?
- Thread starter Van
- Start date
Not a shred of useful information Sir, just disparaging claims.
Sadly, I think you may be revealing more than you intended...
No need, as we need to present the gospel to those who deny God in three Persons.
Let me explain something, Brother.
The Trinity is one of the many things the believer learns to treasure in their hearts through the sanctification of the Spirit while growing in grace after salvation. We can't make these things a must for salvation for the unknowledgeable to know before salvation.
It's wrong and can hinder one's growing in grace. That knowledge comes through sound doctrinal preaching.
I think the difference is Van is making it a requirement to believe in the Trinity before they are saved, provided I’ve understood him correctly. That is not taught in the Bible that I know of. However, I do believe in time the person will come to grasp the Trinity as a proof of salvation.
Jesus heard that they had put him out, and finding him, He said, “Do you believe in the Son of Man?” He answered, “Who is He, Lord, that I may believe in Him?” Jesus said to him, “You have both seen Him, and He is the one who is talking with you.” And he said, “Lord, I believe.” And he worshiped Him.[John 9:35-38]
They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”[Acts 16:31]
But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes in Him will not be disappointed.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; for “Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved.”[Romans 10:8-13]
In those three places, we see belief in the Lord Jesus, and not the Trinity, as being necessary in being saved.
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
Paul gave what was of first importance:
Christ died for our sins, according to the scriptures
He was buried and raised from the dead, according to the scripture
He was seen, after His resurrection by more than 500 people that knew He had died.
If you confess with your mouth, Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved
So don’t make salvation more complicated than what scripture reveals.
God Holy Spirit will guide believers into all truth.
If you study well, and accept what scripture reveals, you will accept the Trinity.
And eventually, you will accept the doctrines of grace
Peace to you
Christ died for our sins, according to the scriptures
He was buried and raised from the dead, according to the scripture
He was seen, after His resurrection by more than 500 people that knew He had died.
If you confess with your mouth, Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved
So don’t make salvation more complicated than what scripture reveals.
God Holy Spirit will guide believers into all truth.
If you study well, and accept what scripture reveals, you will accept the Trinity.
And eventually, you will accept the doctrines of grace
Peace to you
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
You are correct. It is difficult to comprehend.
I have found comfort in the idea that God must always condescend to us.
That is, God is so different from anyone else that exists (He is truly unique) that He must refer to Himself in ways we can understand.
He is Father, which is true but not exhaustive. He is Son, which is true but not exhaustive. He is Holy Spirit which is true but not exhaustive. All three truths help us to understand Him, and develop a relationship which He desires.
He is Love. He is Life. He is the Beginning and the End. And much much more.
Complete understanding, which is what I think you are saying, is not possible this side of heaven and may never be possible because of our limited ability to comprehend the infinite God.
Peace to you
That's some good preaching right there!
Ascetic X
Well-Known Member
I do not think one must believe in the Trinity to be saved. But a saved person will eventually accept God being triune.
One God existing as 3 different people is impossible to understand. Trinity does not correspond to any sentient entity in the known world. Every entity is only one person, not two or three.
Trinity makes no sense, yet the Bible implies it. It is illogical. Just like speaking this vast, complex universe into being. It is mind-boggling.
I have read books of theology devoted to the trinity and they just make it more confusing. I cannot picture it in my imagination, how three people can be one entity called God.
I disbelieved the trinity after doing much research. But later, I decided trinity was true, because so many Bible teachers throughout history said so. Plus, there are clear verses on Jesus being God in the flesh. Trinity is a theological concept that is not immediately obvious or explainable.
We cannot understand how one man’s death on the cross paid for our sins and the sins of the entire world. We cannot comprehend eternity or trinity. Some things are frustratingly difficult to deal with mentally, but we accept them by faith.
One God existing as 3 different people is impossible to understand. Trinity does not correspond to any sentient entity in the known world. Every entity is only one person, not two or three.
Trinity makes no sense, yet the Bible implies it. It is illogical. Just like speaking this vast, complex universe into being. It is mind-boggling.
I have read books of theology devoted to the trinity and they just make it more confusing. I cannot picture it in my imagination, how three people can be one entity called God.
I disbelieved the trinity after doing much research. But later, I decided trinity was true, because so many Bible teachers throughout history said so. Plus, there are clear verses on Jesus being God in the flesh. Trinity is a theological concept that is not immediately obvious or explainable.
We cannot understand how one man’s death on the cross paid for our sins and the sins of the entire world. We cannot comprehend eternity or trinity. Some things are frustratingly difficult to deal with mentally, but we accept them by faith.
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1) If you cannot recognize the scripture verses already cited, perhaps you should NOT be teaching.
2) Salvation is simple, we are NOT to worship the god of our own making, but the God of scripture.
3) More absurd and false claims. Scripture says we must believe in the One who sent Him, and we must believe in the name of Jesus, which includes Jesus being God incarnate. And we must believe Jesus performed His miracles with the power of the Holy Spirit. All these beliefs are required BEFORE God will credit our faith as righteousness!
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
Just personal attacks from someone who admits he changes the words of scripture to fit his beliefs.
Correct
Where does it says we “must” believe that yo be saved?
Where does it say we “must” believe that yo be saved?
Where does it say we “must” believe that to be saved?
Where does it say Abraham believed all that before his faith was credited as righteousness?
Where does it say we “must’ believe all of that BEFORE we are saved.
The more you post, the more it appears you believe salvation is based on our performance instead of God’s grace.
All the things you posted as “must believe before” falls into the category of “should believe after
Peace to you
Did you accept on faith, rather than theological mumble-jumbo that God the Father raised God the Son from the dead using the power of the Holy Spirit? I did!
Did I understand the Trinity Triangle? Nope, I had no idea. But I believed Jesus was sent by the Father. When I was water baptized, I thought I understood the meaning of "in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost." (Yes it was that long ago.)
Did I understand the Trinity Triangle? Nope, I had no idea. But I believed Jesus was sent by the Father. When I was water baptized, I thought I understood the meaning of "in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost." (Yes it was that long ago.)
Ascetic X
Well-Known Member
Accepting (for no one can really understand) the Trinity is a theological development that should happen after getting born again. We must believe in Jesus Christ (which includes His sacrifice on the cross for our sins and His resurrection from the dead). That is all. Salvation is that simple.
There is no verse that says we must believe in a trinity or believe in God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit as a triune God, to be saved, even though this formula is true. Many things about God are true, but salvation is not accomplished by embracing theological concepts that are difficult to comprehend.
What scripture actually directly says about getting saved:
Acts 16:31
And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.John 14:6
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”John 6:47
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.John 8:24
I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins.John 6:29
Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.”John 20:31
But these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.Acts 2:38
And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.”John 6:40
For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.Romans 10:9-10
Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.
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Yet another post of animosity.
1) Did I "admit" I change the words of scripture? Never, I do change the words used to translate scripture to represent my understanding. So a false claim to disparage, rather than enlighten with truth.
2) Next the poster indicates he does not know that we must believe in the One who sent Jesus. If true, that means the person does NOT know how to study scripture. Every believer must know what John 12:44 says.
3) Next the poster denies we must believe in the name of Jesus. I kid you not. 1 John 3:23 must be missing.
4) Next the post denies the Holy Spirit's power was used for one of Christ's greatest miracles, see Romans 8:11. To believe God raised Jesus from the dead is to believe in the name of the Holy Spirit.
5) We are under the New Covenant, the requirements of the Old Covenant are non-germane.
6) Read your bible!
7) Yet another misrepresentation, I believe we are saved by grace through faith. Your heresy is the claim we did not trust in Christ before we were saved. John 3:16. Your doctrine turns "through faith" into "then given faith." It is hogwash.
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Now Jesus cried out and said, “The one who believes in Me, does not believe only in Me, but also in Him who sent Me.
This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.
But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.
but for our sake also, to whom it will be credited, to us who believe in Him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead,
In summary, the Holy Spirit's power was used to raise Jesus from the dead. And we must believe in the One who raised Jesus from the dead. Those that claim we do not need to believe in the Father who sent Jesus, or the Holy Spirit who raised Jesus have something to learn about the gospel.
This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.
But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.
but for our sake also, to whom it will be credited, to us who believe in Him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead,
In summary, the Holy Spirit's power was used to raise Jesus from the dead. And we must believe in the One who raised Jesus from the dead. Those that claim we do not need to believe in the Father who sent Jesus, or the Holy Spirit who raised Jesus have something to learn about the gospel.