Do you have to believe that Jesus is the 2nd Person to be saved?

[DHK]

So if all I have to do is be born again, do i have to have to know Jesus is the 2nd person in the Trinity? Am i born again the moment i get the revelation of the Trinity? Or the moment I put my trust in the Jesus who died, was buried and rose again?

It is at the moment that you put your trust in Jesus Christ as defined by the Bible. If you don't know who Jesus is then how can you put your trust in Him.
Some years ago there was a man somewhere in California driving around in a pink Cadillac. He claimed to be Jesus Christ too.

 

[Stanedglass]

It is at the moment that you put your trust in Jesus Christ as defined by the Bible. If you don't know who Jesus is then how can you put your trust in Him.
Some years ago there was a man somewhere in California driving around in a pink Cadillac. He claimed to be Jesus Christ too.

So as long as I am trying to follow Jesus and am obedient to his word, I'm not saved until I realize he's 2nd? What if I die without understanding that? Where do I go, to heaven or to hell?

 

[annsni]

So if someone testifies of Jesus, his life, death, burial, and ressurection, and I believe that, and I call upon the Name of the Lord to save me. Does that mean God did not save me? B/c I did not know he was 2nd?

But who is Jesus? Is He God? If you believe He's God then, yes, you are saved. If you believe He's a good man or a prophet, then you are not saved.

 

[annsni]

That's what we've been saying. If a person believes the Gospel and the Jesus Christ of that Gospel. Are they saved or not, or do they have to believe in that Jesus and understand that he's 2nd?

Why arn't you adding in 2nd to your qualifications of knowing Jesus above? Just curious!

Why are you so hung up on the term "second"? Jesus is God. Without that knowledge, you cannot be saved. Period.

 

[Stanedglass]

But who is Jesus? Is He God? If you believe He's God then, yes, you are saved. If you believe He's a good man or a prophet, then you are not saved.

Heaven or Hell annsni?

Stop trying not to answer the question.

If I put my faith in Jesus Christ (God manifest in the flesh 1 Tim 3:16, Jesus The I AM John 8:58) and I'm obedient to Jesus Christ (God manifest in the flesh 1 Tim 3:16, Jesus The I AM John 8:58) and put my faith in him, and If I die before I have the revelation that he's 2nd, will I go to heaven or Hell?

Be very direct and to the point please! Heaven or Hell?

DHK please answer this too.

I'm off to the Gym and will be back shortly! Will probably toon in via Iphone at gym b/c I'm intrested in your Really short single answer! LOL

 

[Darron Steele]

Heaven or Hell annsni?

Stop trying not to answer the question.

If I put my faith in Jesus Christ (God manifest in the flesh 1 Tim 3:16, Jesus The I AM John 8:58) and I'm obedient to Jesus Christ (God manifest in the flesh 1 Tim 3:16, Jesus The I AM John 8:58) and put my faith in him, and If I die before I have the revelation that he's 2nd, will I go to heaven or Hell?

Be very direct and to the point please! Heaven or Hell?...

Okay, enough.

Annsni has answered your question the best anyone can. She cannot read your mind any more than I or anyone else can.

Annsni is a nice lady. Quit badgering her.

You have gone too far. It is time for someone to be blunt regarding your tantrum that is this thread: grow up. Act your age. You are too close to 30 to be acting like this.

 

[annsni]

Heaven or Hell annsni?

Stop trying not to answer the question.

If I put my faith in Jesus Christ (God manifest in the flesh 1 Tim 3:16, Jesus The I AM John 8:58) and I'm obedient to Jesus Christ (God manifest in the flesh 1 Tim 3:16, Jesus The I AM John 8:58) and put my faith in him, and If I die before I have the revelation that he's 2nd, will I go to heaven or Hell?

Be very direct and to the point please! Heaven or Hell?

DHK please answer this too.

I'm off to the Gym and will be back shortly! Will probably toon in via Iphone at gym b/c I'm intrested in your Really short single answer! LOL

I do not know if you are going to heaven or hell. I do not know you and only Jesus Christ Himself knows for sure.

However, if you put your faith in Jesus Christ - God incarnate - who died for your sins and rose again conquering death, and do this truthfully, then you are saved - you will go to heaven.

If you put your faith in a man named Jesus who was a god, or a good man, or a prophet or something other than God incarnate, then you will not go to heaven because that is not the Jesus of the Bible.

That's as straight an answer as I can give you. I don't know what else you want.

 

[annsni]

Okay, enough.

Annsni has answered your question the best anyone can. She cannot read your mind any more than I or anyone else can.

Annsni is a nice lady. Quit badgering her.

You have gone too far. It is time for someone to be blunt regarding your tantrum that is this thread: grow up. Act your age. You are too close to 30 to be acting like this.

Thank you Darron for standing up for me. :flower:

 

[Stanedglass]

I do not know if you are going to heaven or hell. I do not know you and only Jesus Christ Himself knows for sure.

However, if you put your faith in Jesus Christ - God incarnate - who died for your sins and rose again conquering death, and do this truthfully, then you are saved - you will go to heaven.

If you put your faith in a man named Jesus who was a god, or a good man, or a prophet or something other than God incarnate, then you will not go to heaven because that is not the Jesus of the Bible.

That's as straight an answer as I can give you. I don't know what else you want.

Even if I don't beleive Jesus is 2nd?

 

[DHK]

If I put my faith in Jesus Christ (God manifest in the flesh

I cannot comment about your relationship with the Lord. That is between you and God. But you just commented on Christ being the second person of the trinity. That is who God manifest in the flesh is.

 

[Stanedglass]

Thank you Darron for standing up for me. :flower:

There was no need for Darron to stand up for you Annsni! I was not pounding on you! He obviously let's his emotions into a debate! If you are going to have a debate, we need to understand that we can be direct without insulting! If he took me as insulting, he needs to address me personally! He can even call me! 336.225.6539 so he can really hear the tone of my voice! Darron your statement caught me a little off guard.

Annsni, this is not a jab at you, but Darron, she did not answer the question as best as she could. The questions was "If I put my faith in Jesus Christ (God manifest in the flesh 1 Tim 3:16, Jesus The I AM John 8:58) and I'm obedient to Jesus Christ (God manifest in the flesh 1 Tim 3:16, Jesus The I AM John 8:58) and put my faith in him, and If I die before I have the revelation that he's 2nd, will I go to heaven or Hell?

The best that question could be answered is with a yes or a no! Not with an "IF"?

The whole arguement was about Jesus being 2nd to be saved. I wanted a direct answer! I really want to know if you beleive a person can truely be saved without believeing that Jesus is 2nd.

If you said Yes! I'm done! If you said No! I'm done! If DHK said Yes, I'm done! If he said No! I'm Done!

If that's what you beleive that's fine! I just want a solid answer with the hypothetical question asked!

 

[Marcia]

I think you have to believe Jesus is God. You may not have to be thinking, "He is the 2nd Person of the Trinity," but believing on Jesus is to know that He is the Son of God and God the Son.

 

[DHK]

The questions was "If I put my faith in Jesus Christ (God manifest in the flesh 1 Tim 3:16, Jesus The I AM John 8:58) and I'm obedient to Jesus Christ (God manifest in the flesh 1 Tim 3:16, Jesus The I AM John 8:58) and put my faith in him, and If I die before I have the revelation that he's 2nd, will I go to heaven or Hell?

The thread is gone beyond its usefulness.
No one can answer your question. You must answer it yourself.
First. Your "question" is composed of conjectures and thus is not a question, but a hypothetical, and then you keep on continuing with more hypotheticals which just never end. It becomes meaningless "debate," if that is what debate is called.

Second:
Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
--You want us to comment on your salvation. The heart is deceitful. Only you can know about your relationship between you and God, not anyone else on this board. "If I..." statements lead to fruitless discussion.

Third:
There is a flaw in your soteriology.
"...and am obedient" Salvation is a one-time event not a process. It does not depend on progressive obedience. If you think it does then you believe in a works-based salvation and have more serious issues to discuss.

Fourth:
"If I die before I have that revelation..."
In other words if you die before you have a Biblical understanding of who God/Christ is. That is what you need to know. Put it in practical terms. Every person is different. Here are some examples to show you what I am talking about:

To a Roman Catholic--the concept of the trinity (and Jesus being the second person) is not an issue; he already understands it.

To a J.W.--the concept of the trinity is an issue. He has rejected it all of his life and must be taught it till he understands it.

To a Muslim--The Muslim believes that the Christian concept of the trinity is that God the Father had a Son through a physical and sexual union with another goddess, probably the goddess--Mary.
Do you think that they need to be taught something about the trinity before they come to a saving knowledge in Christ.

Everyone is different in their concept of Christ, God and Christianity. I don't know you, your heart, and even the state of your salvation. Only God does.
Unless a person puts his faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, as defined in the Bible, he cannot be saved.
I trust that helps.

 

[annsni]

Annsni, this is not a jab at you, but Darron, she did not answer the question as best as she could. The questions was "If I put my faith in Jesus Christ (God manifest in the flesh 1 Tim 3:16, Jesus The I AM John 8:58) and I'm obedient to Jesus Christ (God manifest in the flesh 1 Tim 3:16, Jesus The I AM John 8:58) and put my faith in him, and If I die before I have the revelation that he's 2nd, will I go to heaven or Hell?

The best that question could be answered is with a yes or a no! Not with an "IF"?

Yes, you will go to heaven or hell.

The whole arguement was about Jesus being 2nd to be saved. I wanted a direct answer! I really want to know if you beleive a person can truely be saved without believeing that Jesus is 2nd.

If you said Yes! I'm done! If you said No! I'm done! If DHK said Yes, I'm done! If he said No! I'm Done!

If that's what you beleive that's fine! I just want a solid answer with the hypothetical question asked!

I answered you. As DHK said, if you believe that Jesus Christ is God incarnate, then you believe that He is the second person of the Trinity.

If you believe that Jesus Christ is God incarnate and all the rest of what we've said then, yes, you will go to heaven. If you believe that Jesus is a great man, a god or whatever, you will not go to heaven. Jesus is God and that is a non-negotiable.

 

[Jim1999]

May I express it the best I can? I was raised in the Church of England, both church and form school. The basic Christian religion and the Bible was taught throughout. I always believed in the Jesus of that Bible and that Church's teaching. When I came to my confirmation classes, I realized Jesus as my personal Saviour. The academics were essentially removed and a personal experience in the Saviour took place and I was saved. I like the expression the Anglican Church used at that time...realize the Saviour. I don't care how much doctrine you believe and neither does the Lord. It is as simple as the thief on the cross. "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom....Truly I say to you, to-day you shall be with me in paradise." Simple as that. A heart felt and honest acceptance of Jesus the Christ.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[Zenas]

I voted NO. The Trinity is an arcane concept, difficult to explain and even more difficult to understand. Jesus said we are come to him as little children and I don't think children can or should understand concepts like this. Christianity was never intended to be the exclusive purview or the bright and well educated.

 

[Darron Steele]

Thank you Darron for standing up for me. :flower:

You are welcome.

There was no valid reason for him to treat you that way.

It all needed to be said.

 

[Marcia]

I voted NO. The Trinity is an arcane concept, difficult to explain and even more difficult to understand. Jesus said we are come to him as little children and I don't think children can or should understand concepts like this. Christianity was never intended to be the exclusive purview or the bright and well educated.

I have to take issue with your statement that "the Trinity is an arcane concept." It's a biblical concept, rooted in the very word of God.

If there is no trinity, where does that leave Jesus?
He is subsumed in God (as in some Oneness groups)
Or he is a lesser god as with the JWs
Or he is another god as with the Mormons
Or he has no deity at all

Only the Trinitarian God explains the deity of Christ as it is presented in Scripture.

The fact that it is difficult to explain the Trinity does not make it any less real or important. We can apprehend the Trinity even if we cannot comprehend it.

 

[Darron Steele]

...If DHK said Yes, I'm done! If he said No! I'm Done!...

How about you grow up, and be done with this tantrum -- period?

There was no need for Darron to stand up for you Annsni! I was not pounding on you! He obviously let's his emotions into a debate! ...

Stanedglass: I grew up raised as a gentleman. We are antiques, a passing species, headed for extinction.

I am not ready to go extinct.

I do not know where you apparently got this idea that debate is a safe haven from manners. A lady ought to be treated with courtesy and respect -- period.

I am sure that follows will not bother you one bit. I am sure that somehow, you will find some way to excuse yourself and glory in yourself no matter what.

I am watching a 29-year old guy act like a overgrown teenager, throwing this huge tantram. I am 33 years old, and I would not have acted like you are 10 years ago. If one person suggested that I was not a Christian because of some trivial disagreement, I would have quietly thought `Well, s/he is wrong, but if that is what s/he really thinks, okay.' I would not have not have started a public whining session about it -- as you did.

I then saw him -- you -- badger a lady in this pathetic, adolescent-type tantrum. You have taken this tantrum too far.

You bet my emotions get into that. If they did not, I would not be a gentleman. I realize that you intended the above as an insult, but you made my day. Thank you.

 

[Matt Black]

Sounds to me that salvation to you is a progressional thing! Is that true? Fundamentally speaking, according to the Baptist Belief, you are saved and filled the moment you Believe in Jesus of the Bible.

But Who is the Jesus of the Bible?

Commiting and having Faith in someone are two different things! I'm not sure where you stand personally on this, but Commiting to some would equal works. It's something we do! And then your back to the arguement that well...are you saying you are saved by works?

I was responding to comments made by someone (Johnv?) that committing your life to Christ without knowing Who He is is sufficient for salvation

We only need to believe that Jeus is God (John 8:24) If you say that we need to beleive that Jesus is 2nd then you are adding to scripture!

Hmmm...not sure that the Apostle John would agree with you there eg: 1 John 4:1-3