Does a Person Have to Have a Born-Again Experience?

[Yeshua1]

No, that is not what the Bible teaches. Where did those who obtained approval through faith go under the Old Covenant? To Abraham's bosom. They waited in comfort until Christ, subsequent to His crucification, took them to heaven. Thus each of them was regenerated after Christ died, not before.

Under the New Covenant, we are set apart in Christ (baptized into Christ's death and arise a new creation, born from above)and when we arise, we are alive, regenerated, justified, saved, redeemed and glorified spiritually.

We are already saved/sealed/adopted/justified. getting more saunctified, ONLY thing left to complete salvation is our glorification!

 

[Yeshua1]

Should one be so glib about their salvation? I am sure that God knows the date of my wedding and who I got married to, but so do I!
Should it be any less important when I became a member of the bride of Christ, a child of the king, an heir of God and a joint heir of Christ?
Is it such an uneventful time in your life that you know nothing about it, and simply chalk it up to: "Oh well God knows, and that is good enough."

I suppose it is good enough that God knows if your married or not??

No, not glib about it, just saying that even if I don't remember the exact date, the very moment God saved me, I can tell you that jesus died for my sins, that the Lord revealed that truth to me , and gave me His grace to receive Him as Lord/Saviour, just was adressing "do we need toknow exact time/dare in order to have been really saved!"

I also know the exact time/date/location sharon and I were married, but if I forget due to illness or something, does that render it null and void then?

 

[DHK]

No, not glib about it, just saying that even if I don't remember the exact date, the very moment God saved me, I can tell you that jesus died for my sins, that the Lord revealed that truth to me , and gave me His grace to receive Him as Lord/Saviour, just was adressing "do we need toknow exact time/dare in order to have been really saved!"

I also know the exact time/date/location sharon and I were married, but if I forget due to illness or something, does that render it null and void then?

No, not at all. And I am not saying you must remember an exact day. My wife doesn't. But she does remember that as a child at approximately seven she asked her mother about salvation. She can remember that she trusted the Lord at that time. She remembers where she was, and some of the events surrounding it. It was a definite time.

That is all I am saying. Just as there is a point and time in the history of your life when you are married there must be a point and time in your history when you come to Christ. It is not progressive: "I was a Christian all my life," doesn't work.

 

[Yeshua1]

No, not at all. And I am not saying you must remember an exact day. My wife doesn't. But she does remember that as a child at approximately seven she asked her mother about salvation. She can remember that she trusted the Lord at that time. She remembers where she was, and some of the events surrounding it. It was a definite time.

That is all I am saying. Just as there is a point and time in the history of your life when you are married there must be a point and time in your history when you come to Christ. It is not progressive: "I was a Christian all my life," doesn't work.

indeed, as there has to be a defined time when once you were a sinner, but by the Grace of God were reborn as a saint!

I am leary of twoextremes on thsi, those who say "always beena chrsitian", and "remember coming forward at church one time, years ago!"

 

[DHK]

indeed, as there has to be a defined time when once you were a sinner, but by the Grace of God were reborn as a saint!

I am leary of twoextremes on thsi, those who say "always beena chrsitian", and "remember coming forward at church one time, years ago!"

There is nothing wrong with coming forward at an invitation and allowing someone to show you the way of salvation.
One of my children was saved that way.
For me it was at the dormitory of a university.
For my wife it was in the kitchen of her home.

Why are you hung up on the place. That doesn't matter. Many are saved in their home church via Godly men and women who are more than willing to show them the way of salvation for they are willing to be used of God in doing so.

 

[Van]

11 Kings 2:11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into HEAVEN.

As you know, scripture refers to three heavens, the atmosphere, outer space where the moon, sun and stars are, and the abode of God, Paradise, the third heaven.

My understanding is Elijah went up in the first heaven the atmosphere, hence whirlwind. Where He went after that was not the third heaven, because no one ascended to the third heaven. So that leaves Abraham's bosom.

 

[Van]

We are already saved/sealed/adopted/justified. getting more saunctified, ONLY thing left to complete salvation is our glorification!

We have been, past tense, glorified. Romans 8:30.

We have not been adopted, which occurs at Christ's second coming, Romans 8:23.

 

[righteousdude2]

Okay!

...HUH ? :flower:

I see you Huh? and raise it two Huhs? :thumbs:

 

[Yeshua1]

We have been, past tense, glorified. Romans 8:30.

We have not been adopted, which occurs at Christ's second coming, Romans 8:23.

Uh NO, as paul used for the term sealing of the Spirit the same type of verbagae known in Roman circkes of adoption, that marked one as a permenant child/son of the father, in this case God!

 

[Yeshua1]

There is nothing wrong with coming forward at an invitation and allowing someone to show you the way of salvation.
One of my children was saved that way.
For me it was at the dormitory of a university.
For my wife it was in the kitchen of her home.

Why are you hung up on the place. That doesn't matter. Many are saved in their home church via Godly men and women who are more than willing to show them the way of salvation for they are willing to be used of God in doing so.

NOT hung up on location, as God saved me while in College in my doem room, but very concerned about people saying that they accepted Jesus by coming forward atinvition, or in a tent meeting/crusade. yet they have not changed at all, not attending church except for holidays, barely if ever read bible, praying etc!

 

[Van]

23 Not only this, but we ourselves also, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we eagerly await our adoption, the redemption of our bodies. Romans 8:23, NET.

No one will be "adopted" until the second coming of Christ. Some Calvinists try to redefine "adoption" to mean "salvation" so they can claim salvation is predestined. That dog will not hunt.

 

[Florida Believer]

Born again

Not all of us have a Paul "experience" & I have met several believers who can't pinpoint the exact day of salvation, but they "confess Jesus as their savior before men". The Word says "...if you confess me before men, I will confess you before my Father".

I was blessed to have a day at 9 years old in a small Southern Baptist church when an Evangelist was in town and that night, gave my heart to the Lord.

Someone here mentioned repentance and yes that is just as important as accepting his 'free gift of grace'.

Also, as others have said there must be sanctification and fruits.

"You will know them by their fruits".

As far as experience goes, what is just as important is answering this question:
'Are you being renewed day by day?' So even though Christians have times of falling back and moving forward, the overall trend should be forward. So if you are a believer in Jesus you at some point should be able to answer and say yes, I am being renewed/changed from the inside out and He has brought me from this ....... person to this ...... person I am today.

 

[Revmitchell]

NOT hung up on location, as God saved me while in College in my doem room, but very concerned about people saying that they accepted Jesus by coming forward atinvition, or in a tent meeting/crusade. yet they have not changed at all, not attending church except for holidays, barely if ever read bible, praying etc!

You know this whole criticism of the invitation is just a farse. As if this is the only time someone is lead to a false conversion. If you actually believe that then you are misled. We need to be real and genuine, not make up campaigns against things that do not fall under our preferences.

 

[Yeshua1]

23 Not only this, but we ourselves also, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we eagerly await our adoption, the redemption of our bodies. Romans 8:23, NET.

No one will be "adopted" until the second coming of Christ. Some Calvinists try to redefine "adoption" to mean "salvation" so they can claim salvation is predestined. That dog will not hunt.

4 Now I say, as long as the heir is a [a]child, he does not differ at all from a slave although he is owner of everything, 2 but he is under guardians and [c]managers until the date set by the father. 3 So also we, while we were children, were held in bondage under the [d]elemental things of the world. 4 But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under [e]the Law, 5 so that He might redeem those who were under [f]the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons. 6 Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!” 7 Therefore you are no longer a slave, but a son; and if a son, then an heir [g]through God.
Galatians 4:1-7 Nasb
Paul said that we are adopted as hiers and sons RIGHT now, do you agree with him then?

 

[Yeshua1]

You know this whole criticism of the invitation is just a farse. As if this is the only time someone is lead to a false conversion. If you actually believe that then you are misled. We need to be real and genuine, not make up campaigns against things that do not fall under our preferences.

just taking the data from Billy Graham monistries, as they have said that even intheir crusades, there are about 88% of the people who came forward who a year later were not attending any local church, pretty much back to "business as usual!"

can and does te Lord save sinners in an invittaion? No doubt, but also no doubt some of them were 'faked saved!"

 

[DHK]

NOT hung up on location, as God saved me while in College in my doem room, but very concerned about people saying that they accepted Jesus by coming forward atinvition, or in a tent meeting/crusade. yet they have not changed at all, not attending church except for holidays, barely if ever read bible, praying etc!

Why level this accusation at an invitation. False professions happen everywhere: in the home, prison ministries, in college (as where you were), at a Bible study group, everywhere. A false profession is not confined to an invitation at the end of a church service or at the end of a Billy Graham service. It all depends on the person's heart and their motivation for "being saved." Many do it for another reason, such as "pleasing their parents," "pressure from their pastor," "peer pressure," etc. But not all of these reasons are confined to a church setting.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

just taking the data from Billy Graham monistries, as they have said that even intheir crusades, there are about 88% of the people who came forward who a year later were not attending any local church, pretty much back to "business as usual!"

can and does te Lord save sinners in an invittaion? No doubt, but also no doubt some of them were 'faked saved!"

And again, happens in prison ministries, Bible studies, even seminaries, for cryin' out loud! The criticism of the invitation or "altar call" is a bogus smoke screen for legalism.

 

[salzer mtn]

Some people base their salvation on being sincere at the time they accepted Jesus and by answering all the questions right if they were led to the Lord by someone else. There are many sincere people in false religions. They have accepted what they were taught as a child when a crisis in their life happens, or if they didn't have a religious background they accept the first plan of salvation offered to them. A person can be sincere and accept Christ but only have a sorrow of the world, which will lead to death. There has been a lot of fruit that was pulled of the tree by religious hucksters that was green and not ripe. Very few conversions happen in an instant from Gods dealing with you to produce a broken heart and a contrite spirit to the finished work. The good ground has to be broken up with the plow of conviction before the good seed is sown, and then the seed has to germinate and then spring forth unto life. There will be many in the last day that will say, Lord haven't we prophesied (preached) in your name, Haven't we did many wonderful works in thy name (led people to the Lord) But God will say, depart from me ye workers of iniquity, for I never knew you.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Some people base their salvation on being sincere at the time they accepted Jesus and by answering all the questions right if they were led to the Lord by someone else. There are many sincere people in false religions. They have accepted what they were taught as a child when a crisis in their life happens, or if they didn't have a religious background they accept the first plan of salvation offered to them. A person can be sincere and accept Christ but only have a sorrow of the world, which will lead to death. There has been a lot of fruit that was pulled of the tree by religious hucksters that was green and not ripe. Very few conversions happen in an instant from Gods dealing with you to produce a broken heart and a contrite spirit to the finished work. The good ground has to be broken up with the plow of conviction before the good seed is sown, and then the seed has to germinate and then spring forth unto life. There will be many in the last day that will say, Lord haven't we prophesied (preached) in your name, Haven't we did many wonderful works in thy name (led people to the Lord) But God will say, depart from me ye workers of iniquity, for I never knew you.

And how many, either by the numbers or percentages, do you think fit this scenario from among those who answered an altar call or invitation?

 

[Yeshua1]

]And again, happens in prison ministries, Bible studies, even seminaries, for cryin' out loud! The criticism of the invitation or "altar call" is a bogus smoke screen for legalism.[/SIZE

I am not against issuing such, did that while involved in prison ministry, just wanting to make sure the person coming forward though really understands what he is doing there...

Ar my church, part of the pastoral prayer team, who cousel and talk to those coming forward, and have prayed with others to receive Jesus, but make sure they understand what that means from the bible!

We just show them not be just soory, or want to feel better, or srying, its the time they will be receiving Jesus as their saviour!