Does God Save Children Apart From their Faith In Jesus?

[Aaron]

So in [webdog's] understanding of God, He is limited and unable to effectually apply the Grace of the Cross towards those hwose sins have not yet been personally imputed onto them, not accountible to God yet?

No. In webdog's understanding, all are born worthy of heaven. That's what he's saying. Infants that die don't need a savior.

 

[Aaron]

But when you try to pin him down he waffles just like the rest of the Aunt Jemima Brigade.

 

[Aaron]

That that is God's general plan of salvation. Are there exceptions? Perhaps.
The Bible also says: "And as it is appointed unto man once to die, and after this the judgment." This is also a general rule of God. Are there exceptions? Elijah, Enoch, And those that will be raptured.

I study my Bible not Augustine, so this is a moot point.

This is not a good illustration. Adam and Eve were created by God as God's children. Death means separation. You believe in eternal security don't you--OSAS. That is the way it was with Adam and Eve. Their sin separated them from God--cut off their fellowship. They didn't lose their salvation. In order to restore that fellowship God sacrificed an animal. Blood was shed to cover the sin. Fellowship was restored.

Did David believe he would meet his infant in paradise?
On what premise did he believe that?

All of the above had their chance to believe and refused to believe in their lifetime that Christ was God, the only way to heaven; that he died for their sins, paid the penalty. They rejected him.

Infants don't have that choice; are unable to believe.
We commit them to the mercy of God.
"Shall not the judge of all the earth do right?"

Lord, have mercy.

 

[Aaron]

Christ reckons the righteous by faith from Abel, not Adam. Adam and Eve were and are not saved.

 

[DHK]

Christ reckons the righteous by faith from Abel, not Adam. Adam and Eve were and are not saved.

And your name is ____G O D????

 

[webdog]

No. In webdog's understanding, all are born worthy of heaven. That's what he's saying. Infants that die don't need a savior.

I'm going to have to go the route Skan did and tell you to stop quoting me. Never even hinted as such...but I'm sure you already knew that as this kind of behavior (trolling) is your MO.

 

[webdog]

Christ reckons the righteous by faith from Abel, not Adam. Adam and Eve were and are not saved.

first I've ever heard this "view". What a load!

 

[FR7 Baptist]

Christ reckons the righteous by faith from Abel, not Adam. Adam and Eve were and are not saved.

And you would know this how?

 

[DHK]

Lord, have mercy.

Please continue the full statement. ..."on me."

Yes, he has mercy on infants. David fell upon the mercy of God.

 

[Alive in Christ]

Webdog...

I agree with this...as long as sinners are saved by grace THROUGH faith (what Jim has esssentially denied on this thread).

Well, I havent read what Jim has posted, but as for me...it of course will be faith. But faith come come through almost any avenue imaginable.

God is extremely creative.

 

[Alive in Christ]

Paul...

I'm going to throw a monkey wrench into this discussion- if you say that God will save children apart from conscious faith in Christ, you swing the door wide open for inclusivism.

And whats wrong with that?

As I understand it its not heretical at all.

 

[Aaron]

I'm going to have to go the route Skan did and tell you to stop quoting me. Never even hinted as such...but I'm sure you already knew that as this kind of behavior (trolling) is your MO.

You do indeed go his route saying one thing then denying its implication.

...or you have just found the fatal flaw in Augustine's teaching, and we all die spiritually in like manner as Adam and Eve...by violating God's law (sin).

In other words, we're born alive.

Saving is something needed by someone who is spiritually dead. God welcomes those who are not spiritually dead, those who have been found not guilty. A sin nature does not disqualify one from Heaven. If it did, we all would be unable to allowed in.

So we're all born worthy of heaven. That's how you say infants who die go to heaven without faith.

You can deny it all you want, that is what you're saying.

 

[Aaron]

And your name is ____G O D????

I just have His Word on it.

 

[Aaron]

And you would know this how?

That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. Matt. 23:35

By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh. Heb. 11:4

 

[webdog]

You do indeed go his route saying one thing then denying its implication.

Not at all...you just won't get it right.

In other words, we're born alive.

What a concept considering death is the ending of life! We who were dead in OUR trespasses and sins that WE used to walk...when sin sprang to life I died...and sin when it is full grown gives birth to death...etc, etc.

So we're all born worthy of heaven. That's how you say infants who die go to heaven without faith.

Has nothing to do with worth...that's what YOU said, not I. Those who are found not guilty go to Heaven. Worth plays no role in justice.

 

[webdog]

Webdog...



Well, I havent read what Jim has posted, but as for me...it of course will be faith. But faith come come through almost any avenue imaginable.

God is extremely creative.

Actually Scripture states there's one way, one avenue.

Faith comes by hearing (understanding, not audible hearing), and that by the Word of God.

 

[Aaron]

Not at all...you just won't get it right.
What a concept considering death is the ending of life! We who were dead in OUR trespasses and sins that WE used to walk...
Has nothing to do with worth...that's what YOU said, not I. Those who are found not guilty go to Heaven.

You say toMAYto; I say toMAHto.

If one is not in need of a savior, he is worthy.

 

[webdog]

Paul...



And whats wrong with that?

As I understand it its not heretical at all.

I believe denying sola fide to be the "h" word, or as I have been told to call it...unbiblical

 

[webdog]

You say toMAYto; I say toMAHto.

If one is not in need of a savior, he is worthy.

...proving you have no dog in this fight as you do not understand justice or the need to be freed from the curse of sin.

 

[Aaron]

...proving you have no dog in this fight as you do not understand justice or the need to be freed from the curse of sin.

You are saying that some are getting into heaven by some means other than the work of Christ. I don't care to quibble over the details of that heresy.