Dr. D. Wallace's View of Election

[Van]

Yet another unbiblical assertion devoid of any scriptural support. We are chosen through faith, not before faith. Ask yourself why a person would deny the obvious? Suppress the truth cross your mind?

Returning to topic:

1) We were individually elected for salvation during our lifetime, after we had lived without mercy (1 Peter 2:9-10)
2) We were individually elected for salvation through faith in the truth, a conditional election (2 Thessalonians 2:13)
3) God chose folks who were poor to the world, rich in faith, and heirs to the kingdom promised to those who love Him (James 2:5)
4) When God chose His Redeemer before the foundation of the world, He also chose us corporately as the target group of His redemption plan, thus He chose us in Him. (Ephesians 1:4)​

 

[Yeshua1]

Yet another unbiblical assertion devoid of any scriptural support. We are chosen through faith, not before faith. Ask yourself why a person would deny the obvious? Suppress the truth cross your mind?

Returning to topic:

1) We were individually elected for salvation during our lifetime, after we had lived without mercy (1 Peter 2:9-10)
2) We were individually elected for salvation through faith in the truth, a conditional election (2 Thessalonians 2:13)
3) God chose folks who were poor to the world, rich in faith, and heirs to the kingdom promised to those who love Him (James 2:5)
4) When God chose His Redeemer before the foundation of the world, He also chose us corporately as the target group of His redemption plan, thus He chose us in Him. (Ephesians 1:4)​

No matter how many times you say it, your theology in this area is wrong!

 

[Van]

Note all they have is shouting taint so, taint so, but no scripture to support their false theology.

1) We were individually elected for salvation during our lifetime, after we had lived without mercy (1 Peter 2:9-10)
2) We were individually elected for salvation through faith in the truth, a conditional election (2 Thessalonians 2:13)
3) God chose folks who were poor to the world, rich in faith, and heirs to the kingdom promised to those who love Him (James 2:5)
4) When God chose His Redeemer before the foundation of the world, He also chose us corporately as the target group of His redemption plan, thus He chose us in Him. (Ephesians 1:4)​

 

[Yeshua1]

Note all they have is shouting taint so, taint so, but no scripture to support their false theology.

1) We were individually elected for salvation during our lifetime, after we had lived without mercy (1 Peter 2:9-10)
2) We were individually elected for salvation through faith in the truth, a conditional election (2 Thessalonians 2:13)
3) God chose folks who were poor to the world, rich in faith, and heirs to the kingdom promised to those who love Him (James 2:5)
4) When God chose His Redeemer before the foundation of the world, He also chose us corporately as the target group of His redemption plan, thus He chose us in Him. (Ephesians 1:4)​

You did not choose Him first, but he chose you! You loved him due to Him first loving you!

 

[Van]

Here is a short list of questions, the false theology folks do not answer:
1. Why did Jesus teach in parables according to Matthew 13:
2) Why did God need to harden the hearts in Romans 11:
3) How could the people of Matthew 23:13 have been entering the kingdom yet be blocked?

 

[Van]

You did not choose Him first, but he chose you! You loved him due to Him first loving you!

Yet another false theology profession. We were chosen through faith, 2 Thessalonians 2:13. God chooses people rich in faith. Note the sneaky effort to equate God's love from everlasting, with God's individual election. Absurdity? The dog will not hunt.

Did they answer any of the questions or did they seek to change the subject?

 

[Yeshua1]

Yet another false theology profession. We were chosen through faith, 2 Thessalonians 2:13. God chooses people rich in faith. Note the sneaky effort to equate God's love from everlasting, with God's individual election. Absurdity? The dog will not hunt.

Did they answer any of the questions or did they seek to change the subject?

IF God chooses based upon our faith, he would be a respecter of persons!

 

[Yeshua1]

Here is a short list of questions, the false theology folks do not answer:
1. Why did Jesus teach in parables according to Matthew 13:
2) Why did God need to harden the hearts in Romans 11:
3) How could the people of Matthew 23:13 have been entering the kingdom yet be blocked?

Jesus spoke in parables in order to agree with Isaiah that the People were far from God in their hearts, and were blind/deaf and dumb to his teachings! Also, to have the truths be revelaed to his own, and not the rest of them.
And salvation process is just not the way you see it in the scriptures!

 

[Van]

Did you see an answer to the questions or yet another change of subject effort. Does God oppose the proud and give grace to the humble. Yes. Does anyone say no because that means God is a respecter of humble persons? God is not a respecter of persons according to the world's value system. On and on they go, proclaiming one false theology point to bolster another false theology point.

Here is a short list of questions, the false theology folks do not answer:
1. Why did Jesus teach in parables according to Matthew 13:
2) Why did God need to harden the hearts in Romans 11:
3) How could the people of Matthew 23:13 have been entering the kingdom yet be blocked?

1) We were individually elected for salvation during our lifetime, after we had lived without mercy (1 Peter 2:9-10)
2) We were individually elected for salvation through faith in the truth, a conditional election (2 Thessalonians 2:13)
3) God chose folks who were poor to the world, rich in faith, and heirs to the kingdom promised to those who love Him (James 2:5)
4) When God chose His Redeemer before the foundation of the world, He also chose us corporately as the target group of His redemption plan, thus He chose us in Him. (Ephesians 1:4)

 

[Van]

Jesus spoke in parables in order to agree with Isaiah that the People were far from God in their hearts, and were blind/deaf and dumb to his teachings! Also, to have the truths be revelaed to his own, and not the rest of them.
And salvation process is just not the way you see it in the scriptures!

More false theology, Jesus spoke in parables so they would not understand and be healed, because the time had not yet come to profess the gospel to the world. Thus Matthew 13 teaches the lost can respond to the gospel.

So they missed the first question and have not answered the next two.

 

[MennoSota]

You can post absurdity till the cows come home. Your progression is not what scripture teaches. We were chosen through faith in the truth, thus God credited our faith in Christ as righteousness before He set us apart in Christ. If you enter a room through a door, you first pass through the door, then you enter the room. No need to debate the obvious.

13But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth. 14It was for this He called you through our gospel, that you may gain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. ​

Next we get "Van you have been proven wrong" falsehood. The truth folks, is they have no scripture on their side. We were chosen conditionally through faith in the truth. All they offer is a liberal rewrite, but the conservative translations, NKJV, NASB, LEB, all say we were chosen for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.

Van, why does God's choice, purely by grace apart from works, seem absurd to you?

 

[Van]

Did you see any answers? Neither did I. Did you see any support for unconditional election cited? Neither did I. Did you see a claim of being able to read the mind of opponents and find ulterior motives? Yes indeed. This is all they have folks.

Here is a short list of questions, the false theology folks do not answer:
1. Why did Jesus teach in parables according to Matthew 13:
2) Why did God need to harden the hearts in Romans 11:
3) How could the people of Matthew 23:13 have been entering the kingdom yet be blocked?

1) We were individually elected for salvation during our lifetime, after we had lived without mercy (1 Peter 2:9-10)
2) We were individually elected for salvation through faith in the truth, a conditional election (2 Thessalonians 2:13)
3) God chose folks who were poor to the world, rich in faith, and heirs to the kingdom promised to those who love Him (James 2:5)
4) When God chose His Redeemer before the foundation of the world, He also chose us corporately as the target group of His redemption plan, thus He chose us in Him. (Ephesians 1:4)

 

[utilyan]

Its been educational to attempt to discuss biblical election with you, Sir, but I have no interest debating the idea that scripture is our final authority for doctrine, not the clever views of men.

Next you claim my view is no more biblical than your view. Fine I supported my view from scripture. Finally you charge me with inappropriate behavior. You are among like minded folks.

Returning to topic:

1) We were individually elected for salvation during our lifetime, after we had lived without mercy (1 Peter 2:9-10)
2) We were individually elected for salvation through faith in the truth, a conditional election (2 Thessalonians 2:13)
3) God chose folks who were poor to the world, rich in faith, and heirs to the kingdom promised to those who love Him (James 2:5)
4) When God chose His Redeemer before the foundation of the world, He also chose us corporately as the target group of His redemption plan, thus He chose us in Him. (Ephesians 1:4)

I asked for scripture to support your "made up rule" that scripture is the sole final authority, nothing was provided, thank you for conceding your error.

I think your behavior is excellent.

"returning to topic"

From what I understand you are saying God elects a person during their lifetime.
In #4 it sounds like a person is elect prior to the foundation of the world.

Can you clarify? thank you.

 

[Van]

No person existed before creation, only God in three Persons. God the Father chose God the Son, the second Person of the Trinity to be His Redeemer, His Lamb of God. Now you do not choose a Redeemer without a plan to Redeem, so when God chose His Redeemer, He chose us in Him corporately as the target group of His redemption plan.

Now why did you say I said we were chosen during our lifetime, rather than addressing what scripture says. How could we live without mercy, and be "not a people" if we had been chosen as foreseen individuals before creation. Answer, that theory conflicts with many verses, so the election before creation was corporate.

 

[Yeshua1]

Did you see any answers? Neither did I. Did you see any support for unconditional election cited? Neither did I. Did you see a claim of being able to read the mind of opponents and find ulterior motives? Yes indeed. This is all they have folks.

Here is a short list of questions, the false theology folks do not answer:
1. Why did Jesus teach in parables according to Matthew 13:
2) Why did God need to harden the hearts in Romans 11:
3) How could the people of Matthew 23:13 have been entering the kingdom yet be blocked?

1) We were individually elected for salvation during our lifetime, after we had lived without mercy (1 Peter 2:9-10)
2) We were individually elected for salvation through faith in the truth, a conditional election (2 Thessalonians 2:13)
3) God chose folks who were poor to the world, rich in faith, and heirs to the kingdom promised to those who love Him (James 2:5)
4) When God chose His Redeemer before the foundation of the world, He also chose us corporately as the target group of His redemption plan, thus He chose us in Him. (Ephesians 1:4)

On what basis is a sinner justified in sight of a Holy God then? By our faith in Jesus, as something that we can actively use to get saved, or by turning to Jesus to Gets saved due to God first changing us and enabling us to get saved now?
Is God active or passive in salvation?

 

[Yeshua1]

Van, why does God's choice, purely by grace apart from works, seem absurd to you?

Maybe due to that theology does not agree with his exposition!

 

[Yeshua1]

More false theology, Jesus spoke in parables so they would not understand and be healed, because the time had not yet come to profess the gospel to the world. Thus Matthew 13 teaches the lost can respond to the gospel.

So they missed the first question and have not answered the next two.

The Gospel had to wait until the resurrection of Jesus....

 

[Van]

On what basis is a sinner justified in sight of a Holy God then?

Still no answer to the questions, but instead we get the above. I have a question, why do the Calvinists, at least some of them, pretend they do not know about the blood and the washing of regeneration? Do think they know but want to change the subject?

By our faith in Jesus, as something that we can actively use to get saved,

Nextt, the Calvinists, or at least one of them, pretends that lost people do something to merit salvation. More nonsense to change the subject.

or by turning to Jesus to Gets saved due to God first changing us and enabling us to get saved now?

Will any scripture be offered to support this false theology? Nope.. They offer this fiction but do not even answer the following:

1. Why did Jesus teach in parables according to Matthew 13:
2) Why did God need to harden the hearts in Romans 11:
3) How could the people of Matthew 23:13 have been entering the kingdom yet be blocked?​

 

[Yeshua1]

Still no answer to the questions, but instead we get the above. I have a question, why do the Calvinists, at least some of them, pretend they do not know about the blood and the washing of regeneration? Do think they know but want to change the subject?

Nextt, the Calvinists, or at least one of them, pretends that lost people do something to merit salvation. More nonsense to change the subject.

Will any scripture be offered to support this false theology? Nope.. They offer this fiction but do not even answer the following:

1. Why did Jesus teach in parables according to Matthew 13:
2) Why did God need to harden the hearts in Romans 11:
3) How could the people of Matthew 23:13 have been entering the kingdom yet be blocked?​

How can we who are sinners by nature be able to find within ourselves saving faith? And why would those who are life long enemies of god now decide to love God and now obey Him?

 

[Iconoclast]

Yet another unbiblical assertion devoid of any scriptural support. We are chosen through faith, not before faith. Ask yourself why a person would deny the obvious? Suppress the truth cross your mind?

Returning to topic:

1) We were individually elected for salvation during our lifetime, after we had lived without mercy (1 Peter 2:9-10)
2) We were individually elected for salvation through faith in the truth, a conditional election (2 Thessalonians 2:13)
3) God chose folks who were poor to the world, rich in faith, and heirs to the kingdom promised to those who love Him (James 2:5)
4) When God chose His Redeemer before the foundation of the world, He also chose us corporately as the target group of His redemption plan, thus He chose us in Him. (Ephesians 1:4)​

Same errors...just a different day