Drinking: Can You Really Handle It?

[righteousdude2]

I find it quite interesting when I hear the debate among believers that drinking is "Okay!" For several years I was honored to serve as the Executive Director of a Community Alcohol and Drug Counseling and Outreach Center, and during my monthly staff meetings with the counselors and the staff going out into the schools teaching teens about the downside of alcohol and drug use, the one thing that came up over and over was that my staff would share that almost always, those in mandated counseling shared with them how they started out as a casual drinker or drug user, thinking that they "Could handle it!"

It was invariably always the case that all of those being counseled for alcohol and drug abuse problems started out with one thing in mind: Doing it 'moderation!'" And eventually, a night out with friends; a bad fight with their spouse; the loss of a job; something unexpected and negative in his or her life led them to go outside the limits of "moderation" even just one or two times? And before they knew it, they were no longer able to "handle it!"

In no way am I going to try to tell anyone on this board that they should or shouldn't drink, but I have to ask you just one question: When the pedal hits the medal, can you really handle it, when it comes to not allowing drinking or drugs to push beyond the limits of what you call "moderation?"

SEE: http://www.gallup.com/poll/156770/majority-drink-alcohol-averaging-four-drinks-week.aspx

Remember this ... if you get angry with me for what I've shared, said or insinuated above, or feel the need to defend your right to drink, maybe, just maybe you already know that it has become a problem you are losing control of...

​

And before you jump all over me ... let me say that in my early days as a pastor, I was into wine, Cream Sherry, and I absolutely loved Scorpions [the mixed drink]. And yes, I drove while under the influence, and while I wasn't DRUNK, per se, I was "buzzed!" I was pulled over, and thankfully God covered my sin, and I was not made to walk any lines or breath in a tube! I know they smelled the wine on my breath, but I dodged an embarrassing event in my life! I am not asking anything in the following poll that I didn't ask myself, a long, long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away! :smilewinkgrin: God convicted me, and I ceased drinking, because I found that I could no longer defend myself before the light God shined on me during and after drinking! :wavey:

 

[saturneptune]

I find it quite interesting when I hear the debate among believers that drinking is "Okay!" For several years I was honored to serve as the Executive Director of a Community Alcohol and Drug Counseling and Outreach Center, and during my monthly staff meetings with the counselors and the staff going out into the schools teaching teens about the downside of alcohol and drug use, the one thing that came up over and over was that my staff would share that almost always, those in mandated counseling shared with them how they started out as a casual drinker or drug user, thinking that they "Could handle it!"

It was invariably always the case that all of those being counseled for alcohol and drug abuse problems started out with one thing in mind: Doing it 'moderation!'" And eventually, a night out with friends; a bad fight with their spouse; the loss of a job; something unexpected and negative in his or her life led them to go outside the limits of "moderation" even just one or two times? And before they knew it, they were no longer able to "handle it!"

In no way am I going to try to tell anyone on this board that they should or shouldn't drink, but I have to ask you just one question: When the pedal hits the medal, can you really handle it, when it comes to not allowing drinking or drugs to push beyond the limits of what you call "moderation?"

SEE: http://www.gallup.com/poll/156770/majority-drink-alcohol-averaging-four-drinks-week.aspx

Remember this ... if you get angry with me for what I've shared, said or insinuated above, or feel the need to defend your right to drink, maybe, just maybe you already know that it has become a problem you are losing control of...

​

And before you jump all over me ... let me say that in my early days as a pastor, I was into wine, Cream Sherry, and I absolutely loved Scorpions [the mixed drink]. And yes, I drove while under the influence, and while I wasn't DRUNK, per se, I was "buzzed!" I am not asking anything in the following poll that I didn't ask myself, a long, long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away! :smilewinkgrin: God convicted me, and I ceased drinking, because I found that I could no longer defend myself before the light God shined on me during and after drinking! :wavey:

I'll drink to that. LOL. Basically I agree with you except some details. My experience at drinking was mostly in the Navy. The word moderation never entered by head. I did not drink often, but when I did, the idea was planned ahead to get what we called "plastered." This was usually in an overseas port, as I have never driven under the influence. I was quite successful in my goals, as most nights the last thing I remember is putting a glass to my lips and the next thing I know I was waking up in my rack on a ship with a splitting headache. I had no memory of someone helping me back to the ship.

A few years later I got married. Alcohol and my wife together went over like a lead balloon. Some Navy friends would come over to our apartment to play cards. We literally went through several bottles of wine each encounter. It literally angered and scared my wife at the same time. That was about the time I was getting out of the Navy, and kids started coming along. That was about the time I stopped.

I tell that story to make a few observations in light of Scripture and common sense. First, from my pattern, I had no business drinking in the first place. My wife wanted nothing to do with it, so that should have been enough right there, her being my best friend and love of my life. Also, with children, I wanted no part of it in the house. At the time, I would have been ashamed of people knowing my antics in the Navy, which told me the Holy Spirit was telling me it was wrong for ME.

Still, I hold to these beliefs. I have no right to tell another individual to drink or not drink, except my children when they were growing up. One cannot make a case for abstinence from Scripture. Drinking to excess is a sin according to Scripture. To me it is not a Pharisee type issue where you memorize a rule and be a teetotaler under your own power. It has to do with following the Holy Spirit. I feel it is a terrible witness that could cause a brother or sister to stumble, or harm my witness.

On the common sense side, there is nothing good about it. Not so much because it is wrong, but because most people do not know when to stop. Those that do not know how to drink in moderation cause injuries and deaths on the highway, break up families and sacrifice their jobs. It dishonors the Lord in excess. In the final analysis, for me, there is nothing good about it.

 

[HAMel]

RD2, I never knew my neighbor drank until one day I found him sober. :laugh:

Prior to coming to Jesus I'd drink occasionally. Would get plastered a couple of times a year but never cared for it all that much as the taste of it never really impressed me..., and thank God for that.

My two grand parents (on my father's side) and all my great uncles (same side) died the result of drinking but they were all coal miners from West Virginia and that was their only way to pass the time, I suppose. They didn't need the local church but now probably wish they'd never have missed a day.

A few months ago I openly admitted to trying some whiskey for my stomach (which drove a few on this forum prostrate praying for my soul and flapping their tongues) but that didn't help (the whiskey I mean) and someone on here even suggested I try Butter Milk. So, I did try it but ended up up-chucking all over the boiler and talk about stink..., goodness. So, 68 thousand dollars later and seven weeks of recovery the surgery apparently worked. No more alcohol; no more butter milk; no more pills and the reason for the high cost of the surgery is due to the fact I've got good insurance and helped pay for those who can't pay.

All silliness aside brother, an alcohol addiction is right up there perhaps with a heroine addiction. What a terrible way to go.

I don't suppose that an occasional sip of over the counter cough medicine, once you've paid the taxes, is going to hurt anyone unless they know they are predisposed. To those addicted to the stuff, why, they always drink in moderation. Ted Kennedy is a good example. I understand the local priest is still praying for his soul to be delivered out of Pergatory. We'll have to wait on that one.

 

[Baptist Believer]

The only one of the questions I could answer was "...found yourself defending your drinking to others," and that is only in the context of BaptistBoard where some people assume that if you have one glass of wine you are a raging drunk who is in denial.

 

[salzer mtn]

When a person drinks anything they want that drink to have an effect on them or has some benefit. We drink water for thirst, some drink coffee for the caffeine, people drink soft drinks for the taste, people drink alcohol for the buzz.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

The only one of the questions I could answer was "...found yourself defending your drinking to others," and that is only in the context of BaptistBoard where some people assume that if you have one glass of wine you are a raging drunk who is in denial.

Ha ha ha aaaaaaaaa! ABSOLUTELY RIGHT:thumbs:

They would be the 1st to call Christ a drunk!

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

When a person drinks anything they want that drink to have an effect on them or has some benefit. We drink water for thirst, some drink coffee for the caffeine, people drink soft drinks for the taste, people drink alcohol for the buzz.

Horse manure....I drink both coffee and beer specifically because I enjoy both the aroma and the taste. Then there are some wines and liqueurs that have a very appealing taste.

If I wanted a buzz, id smoke pot .....better yet hash. I currently don't smoke or injest any of that crap. And I will tell you why. Everyone I have observed using it LONG TERM acts like they have a deminished IQ level.....and I can ill afford to appear dumber than I am.:smilewinkgrin:

 

[JohnDeereFan]

I'll drink to that. LOL. Basically I agree with you except some details. My experience at drinking was mostly in the Navy. The word moderation never entered by head.

[snipped - uncalled for baiting]

 

[JohnDeereFan]

I find it quite interesting when I hear the debate among believers that drinking is "Okay!" For several years I was honored to serve as the Executive Director of a Community Alcohol and Drug Counseling and Outreach Center, and during my monthly staff meetings with the counselors and the staff going out into the schools teaching teens about the downside of alcohol and drug use, the one thing that came up over and over was that my staff would share that almost always, those in mandated counseling shared with them how they started out as a casual drinker or drug user, thinking that they "Could handle it!"

It was invariably always the case that all of those being counseled for alcohol and drug abuse problems started out with one thing in mind: Doing it 'moderation!'" And eventually, a night out with friends; a bad fight with their spouse; the loss of a job; something unexpected and negative in his or her life led them to go outside the limits of "moderation" even just one or two times? And before they knew it, they were no longer able to "handle it!"

In no way am I going to try to tell anyone on this board that they should or shouldn't drink, but I have to ask you just one question: When the pedal hits the medal, can you really handle it, when it comes to not allowing drinking or drugs to push beyond the limits of what you call "moderation?"

SEE: http://www.gallup.com/poll/156770/majority-drink-alcohol-averaging-four-drinks-week.aspx

Remember this ... if you get angry with me for what I've shared, said or insinuated above, or feel the need to defend your right to drink, maybe, just maybe you already know that it has become a problem you are losing control of...

​

And before you jump all over me ... let me say that in my early days as a pastor, I was into wine, Cream Sherry, and I absolutely loved Scorpions [the mixed drink]. And yes, I drove while under the influence, and while I wasn't DRUNK, per se, I was "buzzed!" I was pulled over, and thankfully God covered my sin, and I was not made to walk any lines or breath in a tube! I know they smelled the wine on my breath, but I dodged an embarrassing event in my life! I am not asking anything in the following poll that I didn't ask myself, a long, long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away! :smilewinkgrin: God convicted me, and I ceased drinking, because I found that I could no longer defend myself before the light God shined on me during and after drinking! :wavey:

When I was younger, I drank a lot, like a lot of young men do. It wasn't a compulsion to drink, but I just saw other guys doing it and thought I was supposed to.

Particularly since I spent several years as a musician. I really thought that was part of the job description.

Now, don't get me wrong, I do like beer and, once upon a time, I did like to have a little Jameson's, but the binge drinking and the drunkenness, in retrospect, I could have done without.

Yes, I did drive drunk, but stopped after I ran over a tire on the shoulder one night and realized that might have been a person.

I don't drink now for a variety of reasons. For one, I don't want my liberty to cause a weaker brother to stumble and, because of my position in the church, I'm under even more scrutiny and I don't want someone to get the wrong idea. I also don't drink because we have a young man who lives with us who has become part of our family, and he's a recovering alcoholic and I don't want to do anything to tempt him.

And, finally, lest you think I'm patting myself on the back for giving up alcohol for purely noble reasons, the biggest reason I no longer drink is that, about four years ago, I found that beer started to give me terrible acid reflux for some reason.

Don't miss it a bit. My only problem now is what to do with my hands without a bottle to hold. Same reason I don't like it when churches show the lyrics to hymns (if you can find a church that still sings hymns) on the wall, but I digress.

 

[preachinjesus]

I used to think that all the Baptists in my life who objected to drinking were doing so out of deep seated fears and realistic understandings of the impact of alcohol.

Over the last couple of years, and after far too many of these conversations, I just realize it is an immature understanding of alcohol.

If you don't drink, don't. If you do, understand the realities of overuse.

If you don't drink, don't hold it against folks. If you do, don't hold it against folks.

Why can't we just agree to disagree and be done with it. Brow beating each other doesn't do much here.

BTW, I don't drink and never have. But I don't care if you do.

 

[saturneptune]

Is that the reason for your outbursts here?

This is your last warning. Leave me alone.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

This is your last warning. Leave me alone.

[more provocation removed]

 

[InTheLight]

I used to think that all the Baptists in my life who objected to drinking were doing so out of deep seated fears and realistic understandings of the impact of alcohol.

Over the last couple of years, and after far too many of these conversations, I just realize it is an immature understanding of alcohol.

Yes, like the notion that you can have a drink now and again but as soon as difficulties arise in your life you will turn to booze for comfort and become a raging alcoholic.

If you don't drink, don't. If you do, understand the realities of overuse.

If you don't drink, don't hold it against folks. If you do, don't hold it against folks.

Why can't we just agree to disagree and be done with it. Brow beating each other doesn't do much here.

Exactly.

BTW, I don't drink and never have. But I don't care if you do.

Great, because I have three Harp lagers in the fridge waiting to meet with me during the Super Bowl.

 

[Jon-Marc]

I've been a Christian since 1963, and I drank a little about 5 years of that time. What I've read and understand of God's words on drinking is that drinking to the point of being drunk is a sin, but moderate drinking is not.

I got what I would call drunk a few times during that 5 years of drinking while in the Air Force. When I got out of the Air Force, I got drunk one last time to celebrate. Then I switched to moderate drinking (2 or 3 drinks). When I was diagnosed with diabetes in 2006, I gave up alcohol and a lot of things with sugar, and I quit buying sugar. With being told that I am no longer diabetic, I've been tempted to buy the wine coolers I liked years ago but have managed to resist that temptation. I keep reminding myself that I am not out of the woods yet; my diabetes could return if I'm not careful; it's not completely out of the picture.

The one thing (not the diabetes) that caused me to cut way down on alcohol was the Holy Spirit convicting me that drunkenness is NOT something a Christian should be doing.

Paul told Timothy to "Have a little wine for they stomach's sake." Apparently, Timothy was having stomach problems, and wine supposedly eased his suffering. I don't believe that Paul would have recommended that Timothy commit a sin--so a little alcohol is probably not a sin as long as one doesn't get drunk. There is WAY too much sugar in alcoholic beverages for me to bother with it at all. I've found three sugar free soft drinks I like, and I drink a lot water and milk; I've always loved milk--not weaned yet. :laugh:

 

[webdog]

Have you given any consideration to your behavior?

FYI...every one of your instigating posts is being reported.

 

[Dr. Bob]

Some people's drinking to excess instead of moderation leads to sin and problems with others.

For some, it is hateful mind and fast typing. Very sad to see the immoderate behavior with another.

Given more infractions this past week than in past year.

 

[Squidward]

Moderation just like eating, working out, an everything else. Excessive drinking causes organ damage. Excessive eating will clog your arteries. Excessive exercise will shred your joints and give you constant, nagging muscle injuries.

I like to have a glass of wine on occasion with a steak, but this usually only happens about 2-3 times per year and only at restaurants. I don't keep anything in my house. I just like the flavor of red sparkling wine with a medium cooked steak. I would never ask for a glass of wine if one of my friends at the table struggled at some point with alcohol.

I believe that the eating issue needs to be addressed more than just about anything with our congregations. Not very many people can hide food addictions yet it seems to be the most accepted-and even celebrated to an extent-addictions in our churches. It would be one thing if lean meats and produce fueled one's food addiction, but it usually is fueled by soda and fast food. I've known way too many effective workers and servants in the church whose ministry and volunteer work was hampered because their weight issue caught up with them in their 50s.

Everything in moderation. Food, drink, exercise, career, etc. (and that includes ministry that overtakes family time)

 

[annsni]

I can absolutely keep drinking to moderation - VERY moderation as a matter of fact. Right now it is my choice and my church's request that I not drink (the church because I'm on staff). But when I did drink, I could easily have one drink every few weeks. Heck, I have a harder time keeping my Coke intake moderate!

 

[agedman]

Folks,

Just because some social/political standard is not "exceeded" doesn't mean that intoxicants are taken in moderation.

A drunk is not one who is a dysfunctional bum though a dysfunctional bum may be a drunk.

A drunk is one who drinks because they are persuaded they prefer an intoxicant over a non-intoxicant.

It is a matter of "persuasion."

Moderation is not a "persuasion" but an excess that is merely functioning at a different level of acceptability.

Kind of like an adulterer prefers adultery over a monogamous relationship because they are persuaded their is both greater pleasure and freedom of expression when in an uncommitted relationship.

I realize that some are going to proclaim that the examples are unequal because they would contend that adultery is condemned in Scriptures and intoxicants are not.

Whether or not that is true, does not destroy the basic argument.

The argument has to do with "persuasion" - not what is Scripturally legal or not.

Certainly, it has been evidenced on this thread that some are persuaded to flirt with the power and authority of an intoxicant (which has only one purpose - to pervert judgment and justice) over that which does not have such a purpose calling it "moderation."

Moderation - excess at a different level.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Folks,

Just because some social/political standard is not "exceeded" doesn't mean that intoxicants are taken in moderation.

A drunk is not one who is a dysfunctional bum though a dysfunctional bum may be a drunk.

A drunk is one who drinks because they are persuaded they prefer an intoxicant over a non-intoxicant.

It is a matter of "persuasion."

Moderation is not a "persuasion" but an excess that is merely functioning at a different level of acceptability.

Kind of like an adulterer prefers adultery over a monogamous relationship because they are persuaded their is both greater pleasure and freedom of expression when in an uncommitted relationship.

I realize that some are going to proclaim that the examples are unequal because they would contend that adultery is condemned in Scriptures and intoxicants are not.

Whether or not that is true, does not destroy the basic argument.

The argument has to do with "persuasion" - not what is Scripturally legal or not.

Certainly, it has been evidenced on this thread that some are persuaded to flirt with the power and authority of an intoxicant (which has only one purpose - to pervert judgment and justice) over that which does not have such a purpose calling it "moderation."

Moderation - excess at a different level.

Really.....thats your argument.....persuasion?!? Oh, you will have to do better than that. Prove it out please.....I am intrigued to see how you do it. Give me the ole Who, What,where, how & why. Thanks