End times thoughts.....

[robycop3]

About supporting Israel...God makes it plain that Israel is His "peculiar" people, and their enemies are GOD'S enemies as well. And that includes the "lost" tribes & not just the Jews.

I believe the rapture will occur shortly after the "beast/antichrist" comes to power & becomes the world's darling. He will have a ready explanation for the disappearance of millions of people that most of those "left behind" will accept. The rapture will make it easy for him to implement the "marks the beast", which he will promote as the perfect solution for the probs associated with mac cards, etc. such as lost or stolen cards, ID theft, etc.

 

[1689Dave]

This is so wrong!
Did the lost tribes then change to become british and americans?

If you trace Israel from its roots, it is easy to see. Abraham circumcised his 300+ soldiers, none of whom were related to him. At the time, Ishmael was his only blood relative. But all became his covenant seed through circumcision. They called them Hebrews at this point.


God told Abraham that His seed (Christ, according to Paul) would come through Isaac, Abraham’s second son. In time a royal family consisting of twelve tribes developed in Isaac, much like the royal family in the UK. But it was always a mixed multitude based on circumcision. If one of the royal family, or any non relative was not circumcised, they remained a gentile and were cut off.


When Israel left Egypt in the exodus, they were a mixed multitude of royal family and Israeli citizens. In Esther's day, many Babylonians became Jews when the Jews retaliated against Haman with overwhelming success.


So it was always circumcision and community that made one a Jew (common usage) or a physical member of Israel.


When Jesus arrived, God no longer needed the physical unbelieving nation to preserve the true seed. Jesus abolished circumcision on the cross, ending the Abrahamic merger of unbelievers with believers, or the physical church state. Only believers, the church, remained as biblical Israel under Christ.


Those Jews who rejected Christ, exist today because of their hatred of him. The believing Jews joined him and remained Israel. The Pharisees take credit for today's Judaism. These are similar to Mormons or any other false religion that dominates a region. In this case the Middle East.

 

[Covenanter]

You keep repeating that and I keep telling you that I am not Abraham's seed and I am still a free male. So I don't know what your point is.

Being Abraham's seed in the carnal sense is worthless - as John preached:

Mat. 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance: 9 and think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.​

Yes, but they stayed physically Gentiles, and saved Jews are still physically Jews!

That is now a meaningless distinction in a theological discussion:

Eph. 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12 that at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 13 but now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. 14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;​

I used to work with a Jewish lad who said there was no such thing as a Jewish Nation, only a religion.

Leon Rosselson - son of Russian Jews - wrote "My Father's Jewish World."
The chorus is:

It’s not a nation
Not a religion
This Jewish Spirit is still unbroken
It’s like the candle that mocks the darkness
It’s like the song that shatters the silence
It’s like the fool that laughs at the dragon
It’s like the spark that signals rebellion
It’s like the dance that circles unending​

 

[tyndale1946]

Being Abraham's seed in the carnal sense is worthless - as John preached:

Mat. 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance: 9 and think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.​

That is now a meaningless distinction in a theological discussion:

Eph. 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12 that at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 13 but now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. 14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;​

Leon Rosselson - son of Russian Jews - wrote "My Father's Jewish World."
The chorus is:

It’s not a nation
Not a religion
This Jewish Spirit is still unbroken
It’s like the candle that mocks the darkness
It’s like the song that shatters the silence
It’s like the fool that laughs at the dragon
It’s like the spark that signals rebellion
It’s like the dance that circles unending​

I agree and can't the scriptures be any plainer?... Well this is the BB and to some brethren apparently not!... Brother Glen

Romans 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

 

[church mouse guy]

I agree and can't the scriptures be any plainer?... Well this is the BB and to some brethren apparently not!... Brother Glen

Romans 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

I myself reject supersessionism as illogical.

 

[Wesley Briggman]

My understanding of the sequence of some prophetic events are:

The rapture including: Rev 19:7-9 KJV "Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed [are] they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God."

While the Bride of Christ is in heaven, the seven year tribulation is taking place on earth.
Including: Rev 14:20 KJV And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand [and] six hundred furlongs.

Following the tribulation, Christ and His bride will return to the earth, beginning the thousand year reign of Christ.

For those who have a different view of prophecy, please share the timeline of these events as you believe they will occur or have occurred.

 

[Covenanter]

I myself reject supersessionism as illogical.

Scriptural truth may be illogical to you, but we must follow divine logic, taught in Scripture, not our own carnal logic.

Eph. 2:
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;15 having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16 and that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: 17 and came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. 18 for through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 and are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; 21 in whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 22 in whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
​

Christ believing Jews & Gentiles are one new man, one body., Paul teaching is clear. You haven't offered any Scriptural basis for you illogical rejection.

 

[Covenanter]

My understanding of the sequence of some prophetic events are:

The rapture including: Rev 19:7-9 KJV "Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed [are] they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God."

While the Bride of Christ is in heaven, the seven year tribulation is taking place on earth.
Including: Rev 14:20 KJV And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand [and] six hundred furlongs.

Following the tribulation, Christ and His bride will return to the earth, beginning the thousand year reign of Christ.

For those who have a different view of prophecy, please share the timeline of these events as you believe they will occur or have occurred.

You are imposing a received/understood system of timing/theology on Scripture, particularly Revelation, rather than deriving your timing/theology from all Scripture.

OT prophecy & types look forward to the incarnation & saving ministry of the LORD Jesus Christ, & ultimately to his restoration of a sinless, righteous New Heaven & New Earth, inhabited by all & only the redeemed from Adam & Eve, Noah, Abraham, Lot, all the heart-circumcised Israelites, including proselytes, those who received John's baptism, & all believers in Christ;

Jesus fulfilled the OT Law, Psalms & Prophecy, so we should derive a system of "end times" theology from OT prophecy;

The prophets apart from Haggai, Zechariah & Malachi all prophesied before or during the exile & first destruction by Babylon;

Until we get to Revelation, there is no suggestion of a future millennium;
The Old Covenant ended at Calvary - Jesus introduced the New Covenant in his blood - see Hebrews 9, referring to Exodus 24;

All the ordained OC system - temple, priesthood, regulations, worship centralised in Jerusalem was completely swept away in AD 70 according to Jesus' Olivet prophecy - Mat. 24, Mark 13, Luke 21, when Jesus veiled in clouds to effect the judgement on the nation that rejected him;

There will be no warning signs before Jesus' final return for final resurrection & judgment;

Romans 11 prophecies regarding Israel are for salvation, not restoration as a territorial nation, with all nations being blessed by the Seed, Jesus, by faith;

Revelation reveals events "at hand .... for the time is near." Not 2,000 years away, & can be understood as relating to the AD 70 destruction. The alleged AD 90 dating is based on an ambiguous note from Irenaeus, written in Greek & known only in Latin translation.

That's an outline - the details have been discussed in other threads.

 

[Covenanter]

My understanding of the sequence of some prophetic events are:

The rapture including: Rev 19:7-9 KJV "Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed [are] they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God."

While the Bride of Christ is in heaven, the seven year tribulation is taking place on earth.
Including: Rev 14:20 KJV And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand [and] six hundred furlongs.

Following the tribulation, Christ and His bride will return to the earth, beginning the thousand year reign of Christ.

For those who have a different view of prophecy, please share the timeline of these events as you believe they will occur or have occurred.

All we really KNOW about prophecy for the present age is according to Jesus' teaching in Mat. 24 at the end of his Olivet prophecy concerning the passing the heaven & earth. We are to live faithfully spreading the Gospel for all nations, watching & praying, ready for his return to bring about the NH&NE.

According to Peter at Pentecost, & Hebrews 1, we've been in end times since Calvary.

Your scenario has been worked out by others in an attempt to understand prophecy when Jesus specifically told the Apostles -

Acts 1:7 .... It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. 8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judæa, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.​

The detailed "end times" teaching you follow is speculation based on Scripture.

 

[1689Dave]

My understanding of the sequence of some prophetic events are:

The rapture including: Rev 19:7-9 KJV "Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed [are] they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God."

While the Bride of Christ is in heaven, the seven year tribulation is taking place on earth.
Including: Rev 14:20 KJV And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand [and] six hundred furlongs.

Following the tribulation, Christ and His bride will return to the earth, beginning the thousand year reign of Christ.

For those who have a different view of prophecy, please share the timeline of these events as you believe they will occur or have occurred.

Thanks for the opportunity to share. I believe the sequence of events are: We are now in the "millennial" Kingdom. It is spiritual and only the born-again can see it. Jesus presently reigns on David's throne in heavenly Jerusalem above.

The great tribulation (Jacob's Trouble) took place with the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70. But ongoing tribulation and the Antichrist's totalitarianism is more or less the norm until the end of the world.

Jesus can return at any moment, all prophecy including the Man of Sin is being fulfilled.

On the last day, Christ will return and raise the dead to their assigned destinies, and what we call the rapture of the saints will follow. The creation of the New heavens and earth will then follow. Jesus will then reign throughout eternity.

This is a thumbnail sketch based on the Amillennial view. But I hold to a modified version, replacing the visible institutional church (Catholics, Lutherans, Reformed, and others) with the spiritual body of Christ version of the Church.

 

[Wesley Briggman]

Thanks for the opportunity to share. I believe the sequence of events are: We are now in the "millennial" Kingdom. It is spiritual and only the born-again can see it. Jesus presently reigns on David's throne in heavenly Jerusalem above.

The great tribulation (Jacob's Trouble) took place with the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70. But ongoing tribulation and the Antichrist's totalitarianism is more or less the norm until the end of the world.

Jesus can return at any moment, all prophecy including the Man of Sin is being fulfilled.

On the last day, Christ will return and raise the dead to their assigned destinies, and what we call the rapture of the saints will follow. The creation of the New heavens and earth will then follow. Jesus will then reign throughout eternity.

This is a thumbnail sketch based on the Amillennial view. But I hold to a modified version, replacing the visible institutional church (Catholics, Lutherans, Reformed, and others) with the spiritual body of Christ version of the Church.

I appreciate you sharing the Amillennial view.

Does Daniel 9 contain any fulfilled prophecy?

 

[church mouse guy]

Scriptural truth may be illogical to you, but we must follow divine logic, taught in Scripture, not our own carnal logic.

Eph. 2:
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;15 having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16 and that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: 17 and came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. 18 for through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 and are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; 21 in whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 22 in whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
​

Christ believing Jews & Gentiles are one new man, one body., Paul teaching is clear. You haven't offered any Scriptural basis for you illogical rejection.

Scripture is not illogical--that is how I know that supersessionism is incorrect. I have refuted you many times to no avail. Theological error is sin so let me tell you that Jesus loves you and I am praying for you.

 

[Covenanter]

Scriptural truth may be illogical to you, but we must follow divine logic, taught in Scripture, not our own carnal logic.

Scripture is not illogical--that is how I know that supersessionism is incorrect. I have refuted you many times to no avail. Theological error is sin so let me tell you that Jesus loves you and I am praying for you.

I explained my Scriptural logic. You have not explained your reasoning from Scripture, apart from quoting a professor, who I have answered from Scripture.

If theological error is sin, then we are all sinners, especially as living our theology is a tremendous challenge. As John wrote:

1 John 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.​

But, as we are forgiven sinners, we are righteous, not walking in darkness -

5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: 7 but if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.​

You disagree with me, & vice versa but that does not mean either of us is walking in darkness, sinning by our theology.

I suggest that could be a whole new topic for contributors to disagree about.

You consider supercessionism to be incorrect, even sin. What precisely do you mean by supercessionism? I've looked at several definitions, but as it seems to be a term defined by those who reject what they define, I would not claim to hold a theology defined by others.

The Gospel of salvation through repentance & faith in our LORD Jesus Christ must be fundamental to all true theology. The interpretation of prophecy with regard to "end times" (this thread) is not necessarily fundamental,
BUT
when the focus is on the unregenerate, Christ-rejecting nation of Israel being God's chosen people, then it is a fundamental error. A member of the church I am attending made it a point at our first meeting, to the effect that the Jews have God's authority to expel the Palestinian people & take over their land & resources. That is in rejection of prophecy -

Eze. 47:22 And it shall come to pass, that ye shall divide it by lot for an inheritance unto you, and to the strangers that sojourn among you, which shall beget children among you: and they shall be unto you as born in the country among the children of Israel; they shall have inheritance with you among the tribes of Israel. 23 And it shall come to pass, that in what tribe the stranger sojourneth, there shall ye give him his inheritance, saith the Lord God.​

And Jesus declared -

John 10:14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. 15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
....
24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly. 25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father’s name, they bear witness of me. 26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 and I give unto them eternal life; ​

 

[Yeshua1]

I was sucked into the Hal Lindsey craze because it comported with the atmosphere I grew up in. My infatuation lasted until I came across a passage (I can't remember what it was now) where I knew was twisting scriptures to fit his own interpretation. To this day I reject "teachers" who attempt to fit their eschatology to the headlines and those who have tidy little systems for dealing with the prophetic and apocalyptic writings in the Bible.

There are 2 extremes concerning the Jews/Israel to be avoided, one would be that God has no more plans period for them now, or that they are still His people in the sense are saved regardless of how they view Jesus!

 

[Yeshua1]

No.... He made them irrelevant. Now they are on the same level as everybody else.

Paul stated though that God well still be faithful to them in the last days...

 

[Yeshua1]

I read 2 Thessalonians slooooooowly and saw how wrong he was.

The Second Coming still has yet to happen, there is yet to be final AntiChrist though!

 

[Yeshua1]

If you trace Israel from its roots, it is easy to see. Abraham circumcised his 300+ soldiers, none of whom were related to him. At the time, Ishmael was his only blood relative. But all became his covenant seed through circumcision. They called them Hebrews at this point.


God told Abraham that His seed (Christ, according to Paul) would come through Isaac, Abraham’s second son. In time a royal family consisting of twelve tribes developed in Isaac, much like the royal family in the UK. But it was always a mixed multitude based on circumcision. If one of the royal family, or any non relative was not circumcised, they remained a gentile and were cut off.


When Israel left Egypt in the exodus, they were a mixed multitude of royal family and Israeli citizens. In Esther's day, many Babylonians became Jews when the Jews retaliated against Haman with overwhelming success.


So it was always circumcision and community that made one a Jew (common usage) or a physical member of Israel.


When Jesus arrived, God no longer needed the physical unbelieving nation to preserve the true seed. Jesus abolished circumcision on the cross, ending the Abrahamic merger of unbelievers with believers, or the physical church state. Only believers, the church, remained as biblical Israel under Christ.


Those Jews who rejected Christ, exist today because of their hatred of him. The believing Jews joined him and remained Israel. The Pharisees take credit for today's Judaism. These are similar to Mormons or any other false religion that dominates a region. In this case the Middle East.

Was Jesus himself a Jew, were his Apostles then?

 

[Yeshua1]

Scripture is not illogical--that is how I know that supersessionism is incorrect. I have refuted you many times to no avail. Theological error is sin so let me tell you that Jesus loves you and I am praying for you.

Right now we are in the times of the Gentiles, but there is yet coming the Time of Jacobs Trouble, and God will turn once again to purify and prepare Israel to meet their soon coming King!

 

[Yeshua1]

If you trace Israel from its roots, it is easy to see. Abraham circumcised his 300+ soldiers, none of whom were related to him. At the time, Ishmael was his only blood relative. But all became his covenant seed through circumcision. They called them Hebrews at this point.


God told Abraham that His seed (Christ, according to Paul) would come through Isaac, Abraham’s second son. In time a royal family consisting of twelve tribes developed in Isaac, much like the royal family in the UK. But it was always a mixed multitude based on circumcision. If one of the royal family, or any non relative was not circumcised, they remained a gentile and were cut off.


When Israel left Egypt in the exodus, they were a mixed multitude of royal family and Israeli citizens. In Esther's day, many Babylonians became Jews when the Jews retaliated against Haman with overwhelming success.


So it was always circumcision and community that made one a Jew (common usage) or a physical member of Israel.


When Jesus arrived, God no longer needed the physical unbelieving nation to preserve the true seed. Jesus abolished circumcision on the cross, ending the Abrahamic merger of unbelievers with believers, or the physical church state. Only believers, the church, remained as biblical Israel under Christ.


Those Jews who rejected Christ, exist today because of their hatred of him. The believing Jews joined him and remained Israel. The Pharisees take credit for today's Judaism. These are similar to Mormons or any other false religion that dominates a region. In this case the Middle East.

Jesus was a Jew, as were His Apostles, and there are physical Jews, and Jews who have received Jesus and are now saved.

 

[Yeshua1]

I explained my Scriptural logic. You have not explained your reasoning from Scripture, apart from quoting a professor, who I have answered from Scripture.

If theological error is sin, then we are all sinners, especially as living our theology is a tremendous challenge. As John wrote:

1 John 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.​

But, as we are forgiven sinners, we are righteous, not walking in darkness -

5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: 7 but if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.​

You disagree with me, & vice versa but that does not mean either of us is walking in darkness, sinning by our theology.

I suggest that could be a whole new topic for contributors to disagree about.

You consider supercessionism to be incorrect, even sin. What precisely do you mean by supercessionism? I've looked at several definitions, but as it seems to be a term defined by those who reject what they define, I would not claim to hold a theology defined by others.

The Gospel of salvation through repentance & faith in our LORD Jesus Christ must be fundamental to all true theology. The interpretation of prophecy with regard to "end times" (this thread) is not necessarily fundamental,
BUT
when the focus is on the unregenerate, Christ-rejecting nation of Israel being God's chosen people, then it is a fundamental error. A member of the church I am attending made it a point at our first meeting, to the effect that the Jews have God's authority to expel the Palestinian people & take over their land & resources. That is in rejection of prophecy -

Eze. 47:22 And it shall come to pass, that ye shall divide it by lot for an inheritance unto you, and to the strangers that sojourn among you, which shall beget children among you: and they shall be unto you as born in the country among the children of Israel; they shall have inheritance with you among the tribes of Israel. 23 And it shall come to pass, that in what tribe the stranger sojourneth, there shall ye give him his inheritance, saith the Lord God.​

And Jesus declared -

John 10:14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. 15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
....
24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly. 25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father’s name, they bear witness of me. 26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 and I give unto them eternal life; ​

There is today national Israel, who are pjysical Jews, and among them, are spiritual Jews, the ones like paul who accepted Jesus as Messiah.