According to Scofield.
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eschatology continued
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prophecy70
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The tone I'm getting from the futurists on this board, (not all) is that if you don't agree you are dabbling in the occult.
I have done a bible search on the word Generation and cannot find anywhere in the scripture where either of those definitions are used. It always speaks of the then current generation or phrases like generation to generation with a few exceptions.
Ge 15:16 But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.
Ge 50:23 And Joseph saw Ephraim’s children of the third generation: the children also of Machir the son of Manasseh were brought up upon Joseph’s knees.
De 29:22 So that the generation to come of your children that shall rise up after you, and the stranger that shall come from a far land, shall say, when they see the plagues of that land, and the sicknesses which the LORD hath laid upon it;
Ps 14:5 There were they in great fear: for God is in the generation of the righteous.
[edit] I hadn't finished this post when I accidentally pressed the Post Reply key. so I will post the remainder later. [/Edit]
Look at Matthew 23 for how generation is used.
The OBVIOUS is, THE PROPHESIED ESCHATOLOGICAL EVENTS HAVEN'T OCCURRED YET!
Oh, REALLY, now?
Please show us some ***PROOF/EVIDENCE/DOCUMENTATION*** those events have already happened.
YOU can, by telling us what man ruled the whole world, had a miracle-working false prophet, issued a mark to all people, without which, one couldn't legally conduct business, and set up a talking statue in the temple in Jerusalem.
Please show us ***PROOF*** Jesus returned in 70 AD.
this whole thread is about PRETERISM, while itf followers have avoided that word so far. But I'm not afraid of that word, as it's the name of a totally-false doctrine.
this is the third thread here in which I have asked prets to provide some ***PROOF/EVIDENCE/DOCUMENTATION*** their assertions are true. So far, they're batting ZERO.
As a Christian and a baptist, I believe EVERY WORD Jesus chose to preserve for us to read and/or hear. he described certain events that are to occur both immediately before and immediately after His return. These prophecies must be fulfilled EXACTLY, TO THE LETTER. And it's VERY-OBVIOUS they have NOT yet been thusly fulfilled.
Preterists will grasp at almost any straw to try to justify their doctrine, but all are just that - weak straws, that crumble in their grasp.
There's only ONE thing that could sustain preterism - the past fulfillment of Jesus' prophecies, especially those of Matt. 24, Luke 21, 2 Thess. 2 and of the Revelation.
This simply HASN'T YET HAPPENED!
So, preterism remains in the realm of man-made false religious doctrines.
this is the third thread here in which I have asked prets to provide some ***PROOF/EVIDENCE/DOCUMENTATION*** their assertions are true. So far, they're batting ZERO.
As a Christian and a baptist, I believe EVERY WORD Jesus chose to preserve for us to read and/or hear. he described certain events that are to occur both immediately before and immediately after His return. These prophecies must be fulfilled EXACTLY, TO THE LETTER. And it's VERY-OBVIOUS they have NOT yet been thusly fulfilled.
Preterists will grasp at almost any straw to try to justify their doctrine, but all are just that - weak straws, that crumble in their grasp.
There's only ONE thing that could sustain preterism - the past fulfillment of Jesus' prophecies, especially those of Matt. 24, Luke 21, 2 Thess. 2 and of the Revelation.
This simply HASN'T YET HAPPENED!
So, preterism remains in the realm of man-made false religious doctrines.
This Generation continued.
Isa 53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
Joe 1:3 Tell ye your children of it, and let your children tell their children, and their children another generation.
Heb 3:10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.
1Pe 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
Look at Matthew 23 for how generation is used (Read the whole chapter)
Jesus pronounced woes on the leaders of the Jews. He said that their fathers were those who mudered the prophets, and told them to fill up the measure of their fathers. They did that by putting Him to death.
The judgement on them was pronounced,
36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
Immediately after this Jesus and his disciples left the temple and went to the Mount of Olives.
The disciples considered his words with disbelief, How can that be, look at all those great stones? They understood it literally,
The rest of Chapter 24 continues. Read both chapters as one. Jesus pronounced woes on that generation which came to pass, and "This generation" means the same in Matthew 24.
Who said He did?
Go to Jerusalem now. Is the temple standing? No. Matt 23:38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
Did the Lord of the Vineyard come and destroy and give it to others? Obviously
1 ¶ And he began to speak unto them by parables. A certain man planted a vineyard, and set an hedge about it, and digged a place for the winefat, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country.
2 And at the season he sent to the husbandmen a servant, that he might receive from the husbandmen of the fruit of the vineyard.
3 And they caught him, and beat him, and sent him away empty.
4 And again he sent unto them another servant; and at him they cast stones, and wounded him in the head, and sent him away shamefully handled.
5 And again he sent another; and him they killed, and many others; beating some, and killing some.
6 Having yet therefore one son, his wellbeloved, he sent him also last unto them, saying, They will reverence my son.
7 But those husbandmen said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and the inheritance shall be ours.
8 And they took him, and killed him, and cast him out of the vineyard.
9 What shall therefore the lord of the vineyard do? he will come and destroy the husbandmen, and will give the vineyard unto others.
Did the Romans come and take away both their place and nation? Obviously.
John 11:48 If we let him thus alone, all men will believe on him: and the Romans shall come and take away both our place and nation.
The Pope ruled the whole Roman world. His mark is the sign of the cross, which is made by his followers with the right hand on the forehead. Where does it say he would set up a talking statue in the temple in Jerusalem?
Have you never heard of the weeping, bleeding, talking statues and appearances of Mary and all the other false miracles of Rome.
Here is one you may not have heard of. We once had a holiday house in France. In the nearby town of Favernay a remarkable miracle took place on 26-27 May in 1608 when a priest had prepared a consecrated host to be adored by the worshipers the next day. During the night a fire broke out in the church and the altar was destroyed but the congregation were astounded to see that the vessel containing the hosts was suspended above the burnt altar. It remained suspended for 33 hours, and on of these is still to be seen in the church today, the other was sent to another church. This so called miracle was a great help in aiding the counter reformation in the area.
This false miracle is recorded in guide books of the area.
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prophecy70
Active Member
Matt 24:29-31 -- Christ speaks of the end signs. This passage hinges upon the apocalyptic language of the great prophets Isaiah, Ezekiel, Hosea, David, etc. in exactly the same way they used such language for God's judgments against nations and individuals in their own times. Compare Christ's words with God's coming to O.T. Babylon in 539BC (Isa 13:10-13, 13:1, and 13:17), God's coming to Edom in 703BC (Isa 34:3-5), God's coming to Egypt in 572BC (Ez 32:7-11), God's coming to Nineveh in 612BC (Nahum 1). So, in like manner, Jesus Christ is now also seen as coming in that same glory of the Father (cf. Matt 16:27; John 17:5). Jesus came to first-century Israel and demolished it in the same glory as the Father's cloud-comings in the OT era (cf. Isaiah 19:1-2). Thus, this passage speaks of Christ's full equality and oneness with Jehovah. This particular "coming" of Christ is signified by the fall of Jerusalem and the Holy Temple. Many cosmic signs were also witnessed in that period: the angels, voices, and glorious brightness of God are witnessed at the temple and around Jerusalem as recorded in Josephus, Tacitus, and the Midrash (Josephus, Wars, 6:5:3; 2:22:1-2; 4:4:5; 6:5:2-3; Tacitus, Histories, v. 13; Midrash, Lam 2:11).
Don't give me that garbage. You say you're here to learn, then you doubt everything I say. And now you've sicced some yahoo with the moniker "Saint of Circumstance" onto me on a PM thread who says he wants to debate me on that PM thread, because my views are (in his tortured syntax) "extremely erroneous and wrought (he means "fraught") with error"? And he hides his identity (I'm guessing Catholic) on his "Information" page as "non-Baptist Christian."
Be honest, and I'll respect that. You're here to debate, not to learn. My words which you quote were a kindly meant rebuke. "Rebuke a wise man and he will love thee" (Prov. 9:8). Your answer reveals your level of maturity and humility.
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What are you here for? Are you here to debate or to learn? You read The Way of the Master and Hells Best Kept Secret but you did not read the books to learn, but rather to criticize Comfort.
He seems here to get everyone to believe his PPR teachings. As you know it is a modern teaching, against what the church has always believed, and we know what the scripture tells of new teachings: 1 Tim 4:1 I have sown earlier that pretrerism and futurism are both Catholic doctrines,
John of Japan is a interesting fellow.
David, please don't post to make personal attacks.
Who knows what you mean by PPR ?
And NOBODY has attempted to support their teaching from Catholic doctrines - whatever you have sown earlier. If you read posts properly you will see that we show our teaching from Scripture.
As for "what the church has always believed" you're sowing on a big field completely free from hedges & fences & barbed wire.
John - please don't quote PMs on the open forum. If you want others to join in, you can invite them to join the PM.
Well, first of all, you don't get the right to tell everyone my motives for being here. Only God knows my motives, and He didn't tell you. I've been on the BB since 2005 and commented of tons of threads. You're a newcomer. Wise up.
Secondly, about that idea that futurism is a Catholic doctrine: I'm tired of it. You did not prove it. You've given no direct link between those Catholics and Baptist theologians of any era.
Baptists have never followed Catholic eschatology. As proof, here are the futurist views of John Gill (1696-1771), who might be called the first major Baptist theologian. (They were pretty much just trying to stay alive or out of jail in the 17th century.)
"But the millennium-reign will be on the new earth, and of saints in a risen perfect state, standing in no need of ordinances, as now. The millennium-reign will not be till after the first resurrection; and the first resurrection will not be till the second coming of Christ, when the dead in him shall rise first" (A Body of Doctrinal and Practical Divinity, p. 664).
"There will be such an exact term of years between the resurrection of the saints and the resurrection of the wicked; nor will there be any wicked living upon earth, or in bodies, during that time; for the wicked dead will not be raised with the saints at Christ's coming, and the wicked living will be destroyed in the conflagration of the world, and neither of them shall live again until the end of these years" (Gill's comments on Rev. 20:5, accessed through e-Sword).
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