For Catholics Only ...

[Walpole]

But Is there a spiritual consequence during the time of excommunication?

The Sacraments, specifically holy communion (the Eucharist) is the normative means by which man has communion (fellowship / participation) with God and with his fellow believers. Hence the purpose / end for excommunicating someone is to motivate them to repentance so they can be restored to full communion.

 

[atpollard]

You cannot get kicked out the Catholic church.

I am “anathema” for holding beliefs contrary to the Council of Trent and refusing to reject those beliefs. I will even freely acknowledge that I do indeed hold beliefs that Trent condemned.

I have read the Catholic Encyclopedia on “Anathema” and it describes the origin of the word, how it was used in scripture, and how it is used by Church Councils. It is my opinion from what I read in your encyclopedia that “excommunication” is an insufficient term to describe “anathema” as the Council of Trent used it.

“Anathema” seems to describe a state of accursedness closer to that of Judas.

 

[AustinC]

John 14

15“If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.

Folks hate that gospel as they do Jesus.


Anti Christs even during their time try to dissuade people from teaching of Jesus.

2 John 1

6And this is love, that we walk according to His commandments. This is the commandment, just as you have heard from the beginning, that you should walk in it. 7For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist. 8Watch yourselves, that you do not lose what we have accomplished, but that you may receive a full reward. 9Anyone who goes too far and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son.


Satan's #1 objective is to get rid of Love from the gospel. Because GOD is LOVE.

1 John 4

7Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. 8The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love.

Satan worshipers can't stand the command of God.

How many people keep all of God's commandments?

 

[utilyan]

How many people keep all of God's commandments?

I don't know.

 

[atpollard]

Easy Challenge, Find something wrong we actually believe.

Not that “easy”.
I can find lots of things in the Catechism that I disagree with, but “wrong” is a lot harder to prove.

Just for fun, let’s start with the Prologue ...


PROLOGUE
"FATHER,... this is eternal life, that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent."

"God our Saviour desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth."

The Catechism claims that the underlined teaching is from 1 Timothy 2:3-4 which states ...

First of all, then, I urge that entreaties [and] prayers, petitions [and] thanksgivings, be made on behalf of all men, for kings and all who are in authority, so that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and dignity. This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, [and] one mediator also between God and men, [the] man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony [given] at the proper time. For this I was appointed a preacher and an apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying) as a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth. [1 Timothy 2:1-7 NASB]​

We could debate the Greek and exchange “proof texts” until Jesus returns, but I will still read that as a proclamation that God is no respecter of persons. God no longer has a “chosen race” separate from the unclean “gentile dogs”. God does not choose to save all men without exception (or all men without exception would be saved) but rather “all men” refers to “Jesus was slain to purchased for God with His blood, men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation”. [Rev 5:9]

You will disagree (as will General Baptists and many ‘Free Will’ Protestants, like the Methodists). That is OK. I can live with that. However, I cannot unsee the verses that I know that speak about “My sheep” and “not of my sheep” or Ephesians 2:1-10 (beginning with our powerlessness, proclaiming Gods unilateral action, and ending in our good works as His workmanship prepared by Him in advance for us to walk in them.). So I have no choice but to remain true to my beliefs, and grant you the same freedom.

Nothing in your Catechism denies the deity of Christ. Nothing denies the trinity of God. Nothing denies salvation by grace through faith. So nothing in your Catechism is a hill that I am willing to “die on”.

The Moravians have a motto that I like: “In essentials unity. In non-essentials liberty. In all things charity.”

In my opinion our differences are “non-essentials”. Expect an “I TOLD YOU SO” at the rapture (when the dead in Christ rise and we all meet Him in the air).

 

[atpollard]

James claims that works are required for salvation.

False.

Any theology that proposes a salvation completely devoid of works is contradicted by the Word of God:

• What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food, and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, be warmed and be filled," and yet you do not give them what is necessary for [their] body, what use is that? Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, [being] by itself. [James 2:14-17 NASB]
  
• For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, [it is] the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them. [Ephesians 2:8-10 NASB]
  
• "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater [works] than these he will do; because I go to the Father.” [John 14:12 NASB]
  
• "I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. "Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every [branch] that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit. "You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. "Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither [can] you unless you abide in Me. "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing. "If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned. "If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. "My Father is glorified by this, that you bear much fruit, and [so] prove to be My disciples. "Just as the Father has loved Me, I have also loved you; abide in My love. "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love. "These things I have spoken to you so that My joy may be in you, and [that] your joy may be made full. "This is My commandment, that you love one another, just as I have loved you. [John 15:1-12 NASB]
  
• "Then the King will say to those on His right, 'Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 'For I was hungry, and you gave Me [something] to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me [something] to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.' "Then the righteous will answer Him, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You [something] to drink? 'And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You? 'When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?' "The King will answer and say to them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, [even] the least [of them,] you did it to Me.' [Matthew 25:34-40 NASB]

 

[Salty]

Priority Is Love God and Love Neighbor. No commandment about saving your own skin.

Jesus Christ answers PERFECTLY.

Luke 10
25And a lawyer stood up and put Him to the test, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” 26And He said to him, “What is written in the Law? How does it read to you?” 27And he answered, “YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND; AND YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.” 28And He said to him, “You have answered correctly; DO THIS AND YOU WILL LIVE.”

Here's a novel idea. Jesus has the best answer.

So are you saying that repentance plays no part in being born again?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Let me try one more time - According to Catholic doctrine: What must a person do to ensure they are going to Heaven

sacraments... there are 7

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

So are you saying that repentance plays no part in being born again?

The Confession “Penance” sacrament.

 

[utilyan]

So are you saying that repentance plays no part in being born again?

Repentance is built in Loving God and Loving Neighbor. When you don't repent you are not loving God.

Its inclusive of other acts like FAITH in God / Trust in God. If you don't trust God/ have faith in God its a sin, not Loving God.

 

[alexander284]

Council Of Trent teaches another Gospel, so why are you so concerned if we point that out?

I'm not "concerned" that you point anything out.

And since you don't seem to understand the point of my post, I'm beginning to view you as a bully, which makes me pity you.

 

[church mouse guy]

Ok, I did a Google search and I see lots of articles with sensationalist headlines such as...

"Pope Francis: Coronavirus pandemic could be nature's response to climate crisis" ---> Pope Francis: Coronavirus pandemic could be nature's response to climate crisis - CNN

"Pope says coronavirus outbreak may be one of 'nature's responses' to climate change" ---> Pope says coronavirus outbreak may be one of 'nature's responses' to climate change

Pope says coronavirus could be ‘nature’s response’ to climate change

The problem with these sensationalist headlines is they never quote the pope stating that. Do you have a link to him making such a statement?




Naturally they considered their own sects "the Church". In reality it demonstrates the illogicalness of the belief in a strictly pneumatological church of believers of different and contradictory creeds.




You do, implicitly. After all, what exactly are Protestants protesting? Paradoxically, it is the Catholic Church with her pope which actually unites Protestantism. The only thing that truly unites the multitudes of Protestant sects is their protest of the Church and their belief that the Catholic Church is not Christ's Church. In other words, the very essence of Protestantism today is still defined by the unity of the Catholic Church and their protest of it.

It is a beautiful expression of how the Church's unity projects even unto her adversaries.

We don't even think about the RCC.

 

[church mouse guy]

"Yeah, but my question is do you think that everyone goes to Heaven, even other religions?"
Its possible. The good Samaritan is a Good Samaritan. Not a Good Christian not a Damned Samaritan.


"More importantly, some people love Satan and want to be in Hell with him so if God is love, how could God force someone to go to Heaven who wanted to go to Hell?"

Hell is locked from the inside.


"I don't think that Buddhists believe in Heaven."

Good buddhist don't believe in anything. Know God vs Believe God kinda thing

How is hell locked from the inside?

 

[church mouse guy]

Ok, I did a Google search and I see lots of articles with sensationalist headlines such as...

"Pope Francis: Coronavirus pandemic could be nature's response to climate crisis" ---> Pope Francis: Coronavirus pandemic could be nature's response to climate crisis - CNN

"Pope says coronavirus outbreak may be one of 'nature's responses' to climate change" ---> Pope says coronavirus outbreak may be one of 'nature's responses' to climate change

Pope says coronavirus could be ‘nature’s response’ to climate change

The problem with these sensationalist headlines is they never quote the pope stating that. Do you have a link to him making such a statement?




Naturally they considered their own sects "the Church". In reality it demonstrates the illogicalness of the belief in a strictly pneumatological church of believers of different and contradictory creeds.




You do, implicitly. After all, what exactly are Protestants protesting? Paradoxically, it is the Catholic Church with her pope which actually unites Protestantism. The only thing that truly unites the multitudes of Protestant sects is their protest of the Church and their belief that the Catholic Church is not Christ's Church. In other words, the very essence of Protestantism today is still defined by the unity of the Catholic Church and their protest of it.

It is a beautiful expression of how the Church's unity projects even unto her adversaries.

Well, Pope Francis did take a shot at Trump in the interview. The Pope is angry over the American investigations into the RCC, most of which were done at the instigation of conservative Catholics but New York did extend the statue of limitations on behalf of the victims. Pope Francis is close to Jeffrey Sachs, an economist and professor, who speaks at Vatican meetings all the time and presents the multi-national view and denounces Trump from the Vatican. But here is the Pope's comment on Trump from the interview about the pandemic:

The Pope also warned against the rise of populist politicians -- who he said are giving speeches reminiscent of Hitler in 1933 -- and others who are focusing solely on the economy. He said he was worried by the "hypocrisy of certain political personalities who speak of facing up to the crisis, of the problem of hunger in the world, but who in the meantime manufacture weapons."

Orangeman bad like Hitler.

And here is what he said about the link between nature and the pandemic:

"We did not respond to the partial catastrophes. Who now speaks of the fires in Australia, or remembers that 18 months ago a boat could cross the North Pole because the glaciers had all melted? Who speaks now of the floods?" the Pope said.

"I don't know if these are the revenge of nature, but they are certainly nature's responses," he added.

and

"There is an expression in Spanish: 'God always forgives, we forgive sometimes, but nature never forgives,'" the Pope said in an interview with The Tablet, a Catholic weekly produced in the United Kingdom, that was published on Wednesday.

I really think that the USA should break off diplomatic relations with the Vatican. That was started by Reagan in order to obtain intelligence information about the Soviet Union but it is doubtful that the RCC has good intelligence information anymore because of their move to the left politically.

 

[Walpole]

Well, Pope Francis did take a shot at Trump in the interview. The Pope is angry over the American investigations into the RCC, most of which were done at the instigation of conservative Catholics but New York did extend the statue of limitations on behalf of the victims. Pope Francis is close to Jeffrey Sachs, an economist and professor, who speaks at Vatican meetings all the time and presents the multi-national view and denounces Trump from the Vatican. But here is the Pope's comment on Trump from the interview about the pandemic:

The Pope also warned against the rise of populist politicians -- who he said are giving speeches reminiscent of Hitler in 1933 -- and others who are focusing solely on the economy. He said he was worried by the "hypocrisy of certain political personalities who speak of facing up to the crisis, of the problem of hunger in the world, but who in the meantime manufacture weapons."

Orangeman bad like Hitler.

And here is what he said about the link between nature and the pandemic:

"We did not respond to the partial catastrophes. Who now speaks of the fires in Australia, or remembers that 18 months ago a boat could cross the North Pole because the glaciers had all melted? Who speaks now of the floods?" the Pope said.

"I don't know if these are the revenge of nature, but they are certainly nature's responses," he added.

and

"There is an expression in Spanish: 'God always forgives, we forgive sometimes, but nature never forgives,'" the Pope said in an interview with The Tablet, a Catholic weekly produced in the United Kingdom, that was published on Wednesday.

I really think that the USA should break off diplomatic relations with the Vatican. That was started by Reagan in order to obtain intelligence information about the Soviet Union but it is doubtful that the RCC has good intelligence information anymore because of their move to the left politically.

I'm sorry but I don't see anywhere in what you posted the quotations from the pope where he says what you said he said. Here again is what you said that he said...

Other than that, we get along fine with you and don't mind you but we think that Pope Francis is incorrect to blame this pandemic on global warming/climate change.

I have yet to see the pope blame this pandemic on global warming / climate change. All I see are sensationalist headlines and people saying he said this, but there has been no direct quotation of the pope stating this.

Here is the actual interview which is referenced in all these sensationalist headlines ---> Pope Francis says pandemic can be a ‘place of conversion’

You can see, nowhere does he blame the pandemic on global warming / climate change. I have to conclude what you asserted is what we call nowadays Fake News.

 

[Reformed1689]

If you are interested, there is a great book written by Dr. Rodney Stark of Baylor University entitled "Bearing False Witness." The book seeks to dispel many lies perpetuated by Protestants throughout the past several centuries about the Catholic Church.

In other words, it is RCC Propaganda.

 

[Reformed1689]

The Sacraments, specifically holy communion (the Eucharist) is the normative means by which man has communion (fellowship / participation) with God and with his fellow believers. Hence the purpose / end for excommunicating someone is to motivate them to repentance so they can be restored to full communion.

Oh don't even get me started on the false doctrine of the Eucharist that sacrifices Christ each time....

 

[Reformed1689]

The Church is inclusive. Heaven is CATHOLIC. Jesus Christ is Catholic, God is Catholic.

Let me correct you. They are not "Catholic" they are "catholic" there is a difference.

 

[church mouse guy]

I'm sorry but I don't see anywhere in what you posted the quotations from the pope where he says what you said he said. Here again is what you said that he said...



I have yet to see the pope blame this pandemic on global warming / climate change. All I see are sensationalist headlines and people saying he said this, but there has been no direct quotation of the pope stating this.

Here is the actual interview which is referenced in all these sensationalist headlines ---> Pope Francis says pandemic can be a ‘place of conversion’

You can see, nowhere does he blame the pandemic on global warming / climate change. I have to conclude what you asserted is what we call nowadays Fake News.

What the Pope did was he said that the earth responds to mistreatment and that the pandemic was a response from the earth. He clearly was referencing climate change/global warming. He said that we should all do with less and he attacked the USA for our military buildup. Pope Francis is linked with Jeffrey Sachs who is a globalist/multilateralist who says that the USA is the enemy of everyone on earth and that people in Africa are having too many children and abortion helps control population and Pope Francis has said that he supports UN goals on climate control and population control. The Pope, who is an Italian whose parents happened to move to Argentina along with many other Italians who supported Mussolini, concluded by saying that there is a proverb in Spanish about how nature does not forgive. So, yes, this Pope believes in global warming and that people are sailing across the North Pole in the summertime and that fires and floods and pandemics are caused by mistreatment of the earth.

You have to understand that Jorge Bergoglio was an insider in the government of Argentina in Buenos Aires. He was not well vetted by the College of Cardinals. He is more communist than they thought that he was. He likes Bernie Sanders for US President and has had Sanders to speak at the Vatican a couple of times. His family background and the government of Argentina are fascist. He hates the USA in general and Trump in particular. I don't know why Trump does not recall our diplomats from the Vatican and shut down our embassy there. I can't imagine that Clarissa Gingrich is well treated by Pope Francis.

 

[Walpole]

What the Pope did was he said that the earth responds to mistreatment and that the pandemic was a response from the earth. He clearly was referencing climate change/global warming. He said that we should all do with less and he attacked the USA for our military buildup. Pope Francis is linked with Jeffrey Sachs who is a globalist/multilateralist who says that the USA is the enemy of everyone on earth and that people in Africa are having too many children and abortion helps control population and Pope Francis has said that he supports UN goals on climate control and population control. The Pope, who is an Italian whose parents happened to move to Argentina along with many other Italians who supported Mussolini, concluded by saying that there is a proverb in Spanish about how nature does not forgive. So, yes, this Pope believes in global warming and that people are sailing across the North Pole in the summertime and that fires and floods and pandemics are caused by mistreatment of the earth.

You have to understand that Jorge Bergoglio was an insider in the government of Argentina in Buenos Aires. He was not well vetted by the College of Cardinals. He is more communist than they thought that he was. He likes Bernie Sanders for US President and has had Sanders to speak at the Vatican a couple of times. His family background and the government of Argentina are fascist. He hates the USA in general and Trump in particular. I don't know why Trump does not recall our diplomats from the Vatican and shut down our embassy there. I can't imagine that Clarissa Gingrich is well treated by Pope Francis.

So just for the record, he never actually blames the pandemic on climate change / global warming, but surely he must have meant it.

Classic fake news. Do you work for CNN by any chance?