Foreknowledge

[percho]

What does "foreknow" mean? Doesn't it mean to know in advance?

Could mean to have known before.

 

[percho]

You only have I known of all the families of the earth: therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities.

 

[percho]

God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew.

did foreknow.

 

[percho]

Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

 

[percho]

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

They were lost until they heard his voice. Paul?

 

[Robert Snow]

It is a theological compound word. Thus the sum of the compound parts do not always equal the definition (take our word "understand"). that is why I turned to how it was used, doing such you get an entirely different view of how the word is used.

While D.A. Carson does not address this specific issue, he notes that there are many compound words in the Greek that cannot be used to denote the sum of the parts. Even in English we cannot do such.

Thus, we must first start with how it is used in Scripture.

I believe it is used in Scripture the way I have explained in earlier in this thread. No use continuing to argue about it. I appreciate you viewpoint and your study, but I am unconvinced.

 

[God's_Servant]

I believe it is used in Scripture the way I have explained in earlier in this thread. No use continuing to argue about it. I appreciate you viewpoint and your study, but I am unconvinced.

I would like to say something here.

For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.

There is no mention of foreknown belief in this passage. It speaks of God foreknowing people. Not actions. Is is possible that you are transplanting a presupposition onto the text that is simply not there?

 

[Rippon]

I would like to say something here.



There is no mention of foreknown belief in this passage. It speaks of God foreknowing people. Not actions. Is is possible that you are transplanting a presupposition onto the text that is simply not there?

More than possible. Norm Geisler,Dave Hunt,Ergun Caner,George Bryson and a host of other Arminians do it all the time. But the Scriptures plainly state that the Lord foreknew people,not plans or the eventual free-will decisions of folks.

 

[Iconoclast]

When you say "I really don't care how you define foreknow" what you are, in effect saying, is that you will hold to your definition--errant that it is--over and against all evidence to the contrary.

So, in effect, you are defining Scripture according to what you want it to say, not what it actually says.

The Archangel

Yes...exactly right...to re-define the word in error is not to have the word at all. Nice posts on this thread, I think it will help any who are seeking.:applause::applause:

 

[Iconoclast]

So in other words, Jesus knew who would follow Him so He chose those men to follow Him? That makes absolutely no sense. Or how about He knew these men beforehand and chose them to follow Him?

Oh Ann......you have been reading your bible again....you see what it says and believe it in the correct order. You are going to spoil the fun of those who mis-read it and make up their own version of how they"feel' it should read.

 

[percho]

Jer 3:8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.

Hosea 1:6 And she conceived again, and bare a daughter. And [God] said unto him, Call her name Loruhamah: for I will no more have mercy upon the house of Israel; but I will utterly take them away.

1:7 But I will have mercy upon the house of Judah, and will save them by the LORD their God, and will not save them by bow, nor by sword, nor by battle, by horses, nor by horsemen.

Hebrews 7:14 For it is evident that our Lord hath sprung out of Judah;

John 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.



From reading Jer. 3:8, Hosea 1:6,7 and Heb. 7:14 who would you say were his own in John 1:11?


And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold:

Do you think maybe his own and this fold might be one and the same?

Had he foreknown this own?

Amos 9:9 For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, Deut. 32:26 I said, I would scatter them into corners, I would make the remembrance of them to cease from among men:

Did or has the remembrance of the Jews, the Judeans, ever ceased to exist?

Did he also foreknow the people of the house of Israel?



Foreknow?

 

[convicted1]

Foreknowledge is never used in regards to actions, but to people. In other words, saying that God foresaw a particular action is not how the Bible uses this word. His foreknowledge is rooted in the person. Thus the word is much deeper and richer than merely foreseeing an action. A good section to read on this is in the Attributes of God by AW Pink.

Brother Ruiz,

Please do not take this as a "slam" against you, or your beliefs, but I love it how we, more often than not, get these types of responses whenever we disagree with the Calvinists. We can read for oursleves, and need no outside influences to persuade us. I am sure Pink is very knowledgeable, but he isn't infalliable.


Now, I don't agree with Brother Robert's assessment either. God sends the call out, and those who humble themselves under His mighty hand, will be saved.

 

[convicted1]

Faith is imparted to us via the Word of God, Romans 10:17, from where all things have come into being.

Faith is not something we do, it is something we've received via the Word of God.

A hearty AMEN from a "nut" in the peanut gallery!!

 

[Winman]

Thank you Winman for putting a correct theological monkey wrench in the Calvinistic machine of mis-interpretation.

God choose those who would respond to the Gospel, those who would say yes to the Holy Spirit's conviction.

Yes, this story is shown in scripture for a reason. Before Nathanael was called and actually believed on Jesus, Jesus saw Nathanael and knew his heart. He called Nathanael a true Israelite, one of the elect. He knew Nathanael truly believed the word of God and was looking for the promised Christ.

There is very little detail of the other apostles being called compared to this, this story is shown for a reason.

The Calvinists don't want to see it, so they explain it away, they deflect. It would overthrow their doctrine.

 

[Ruiz]

Brother Ruiz,

Please do not take this as a "slam" against you, or your beliefs, but I love it how we, more often than not, get these types of responses whenever we disagree with the Calvinists. We can read for oursleves, and need no outside influences to persuade us. I am sure Pink is very knowledgeable, but he isn't infalliable.


Now, I don't agree with Brother Robert's assessment either. God sends the call out, and those who humble themselves under His mighty hand, will be saved.

Pink is not perfect, but on this issue he is very tough to argue against. If you note, I took the scriptures and exegetically showed my point. There is nothing wrong with citing sources or arguments, that is what I did.

What I find most amazing, no one has attempted to argue against those scriptures I did bring up.

On the other end, which is better, citing no one but yourself or citing others who agree with you? I tend to believe that if you will argue against someone for citing a respected scholar then you should argue also against people here who express their opinions. THey are not God nor are they the Bible.

 

[kyredneck]

I think my initial statements supports this idea that it was not foresite of an action. There is no evidence or place in Scripture where foreknew is talking about foreknowing a verb (like a decision) but foreknowing a noun, a person.

Zactly.

I foreknow It's suger snap peas that are going to come up in this row in my garden because, I PLANTED THEM THERE.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Pink is not perfect,

dems fightin words!

 

[Jeremiah2911]

Yes, this story is shown in scripture for a reason. Before Nathanael was called and actually believed on Jesus, Jesus saw Nathanael and knew his heart. He called Nathanael a true Israelite, one of the elect. He knew Nathanael truly believed the word of God and was looking for the promised Christ.

There is very little detail of the other apostles being called compared to this, this story is shown for a reason.

The Calvinists don't want to see it, so they explain it away, they deflect. It would overthrow their doctrine.

I read through this entire thread this morning and Praise God, its civil!! :applause:--and very informative as well, lots of good posts and questions....
Winman, the "calvinist" doctrine, as you call it, gives glory to God [not man] for all things--you are saying that Nathaniel had something [faith]I don't believe he could get if it didn't come from God. Yes, if you could prove that salvation, election is by mans "faith" you could overthrow Calvinist doctrine [and Scripture btw] Keep studying!

 

[annsni]

Oh Ann......you have been reading your bible again....you see what it says and believe it in the correct order. You are going to spoil the fun of those who mis-read it and make up their own version of how they"feel' it should read.

I tell my kids that it's my God-given role to spoil their fun so maybe that's my role here too??

 

[kyredneck]

Yes, this story is shown in scripture for a reason. Before Nathanael was called and actually believed on Jesus, Jesus saw Nathanael and knew his heart. He called Nathanael a true Israelite, one of the elect. He knew Nathanael truly believed the word of God and was looking for the promised Christ.

but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. Ro 2:29

The above truth is beautifully illustrated by the incident below:

“Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him, Behold, an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile! ”

God had already wrought within Nathanael, he was already 'doing the truth' [Jn 3:21] PRIOR to coming to Christ; the birth from above had already occurred.

Nathanael was a Jew inwardly, he was circumcised in heart, thus his praise from God in the flesh:

“Behold, an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile!”