Did Cain and Abel have the same chance? Was one chosen and the other not?
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free will vs. election???????
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HisWitness
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Did Cain and Abel have the same chance? Was one chosen and the other not?
Cain and Abel both had the same chance--Cain refused to bring the right offering god commanded as Abel did--if Cain would have repented and done right he too would have been accepted by God as Abel was--but he rebelled in anger against God and killed his brother because God accepted Abel's offering and not his .
So you believe they were both capable of making the right decision...but did not, correct?Cain and Abel both had the same chance--Cain refused to bring the right offering god commanded as Abel did--if Cain would have repented and done right he too would have been accepted by God as Abel was--but he rebelled in anger against God and killed his brother because God accepted Abel's offering and not his .
So was Abel elected/chosen and Cain condemned/not chosen before the foundation of the world?
Were both able to commune with God?
HisWitness
New Member
So you believe they were both capable of making the right decision...but did not, correct?
So was Abel elected/chosen and Cain condemned/not chosen before the foundation of the world?
Were both able to commune with God?
they were both capable of making the right decision.
the only reason Abel made the right decision was that God had worked in his life and Heart to enable him to want to make the right decision or he would have chosen just like cain and rebelled
Abel made the right decision because of God and God only.
Cain made the wrong decision because he didn't want God's way but his own.
Can you show me in scripture how you came to this conclusion?they were both capable of making the right decision.
the only reason Abel made the right decision was that God had worked in his life and Heart to enable him to want to make the right decision or he would have chosen just like cain and rebelled
So God chose to help Abel...but left Cain alone? Isn't that favortism? Why wouldn't he work on both their hearts?Abel made the right decision because of God and God only.
Cain made the wrong decision because he didn't want God's way but his own.
You did not answer the questions...
So was Abel elected/chosen and Cain condemned/not chosen before the foundation of the world?
Were both able to commune with God?
HisWitness
New Member
Can you show me in scripture how you came to this conclusion?
So God chose to help Abel...but left Cain alone? Isn't that favortism? Why wouldn't he work on both their hearts?
You did not answer the questions...
So was Abel elected/chosen and Cain condemned/not chosen before the foundation of the world?
Were both able to commune with God?
for God loved Jacob and hated Esau--favoritism
if God would save everyone at the same time--how could his purpose and Glory be revealed ?(he could do so if he chose to do it)
How could man ever learn of his ways and suffer for his cause and know who god is if he saved everyone at the same time--how could you trust God when your enemies are against you--if you have no enemies?
how can you know who God is if you did not suffer in the flesh ?
You have to have enemies and troubles and persecution in order to know God's LOVE toward you and there has to be lost out there so that they can see God's LOVE through his saints--ALL is according to God's purpose and glory and shall be revealed in due time.
God did send his Son for mankind--they are his to do what so ever he chooses and how he chooses to do it.but God will finish in his exalted mercy to all mankind as he has promised (Mercy shall triump over judgement)
God will save his BEST for last and mankind cannot comprehend what Glory shall be in his presence--our feeble minds cannot imagine his Glory.
HisWitness
New Member
Can you show me in scripture how you came to this conclusion?
So God chose to help Abel...but left Cain alone? Isn't that favortism? Why wouldn't he work on both their hearts?
You did not answer the questions...
So was Abel elected/chosen and Cain condemned/not chosen before the foundation of the world?
Were both able to commune with God?
God's presence was taken from man after adam's sin--because God cant be in the presence of Sin--God no longer walked with man in the day as he had done before--God still talked to man though but did not come down to man anymore in the same fashion
I understand all do not come to Christ at the same time.for God loved Jacob and hated Esau--favoritism
if God would save everyone at the same time--how could his purpose and Glory be revealed ?(he could do so if he chose to do it)
How could man ever learn of his ways and suffer for his cause and know who god is if he saved everyone at the same time--how could you trust God when your enemies are against you--if you have no enemies?
how can you know who God is if you did not suffer in the flesh ?
You have to have enemies and troubles and persecution in order to know God's LOVE toward you and there has to be lost out there so that they can see God's LOVE through his saints--ALL is according to God's purpose and glory and shall be revealed in due time.
God did send his Son for mankind--they are his to do what so ever he chooses and how he chooses to do it.but God will finish in his exalted mercy to all mankind as he has promised (Mercy shall triump over judgement)
God will save his BEST for last and mankind cannot comprehend what Glory shall be in his presence--our feeble minds cannot imagine his Glory.
So you believe before the foundation of the World that Abel was chosen and Cain was condemned, correct?
psalms109:31
Active Member
How can God, who is perfectly just, "command all men everywhere to repent" (Acts 17:30), knowing the command is impossible to obey?
Repenting of all our sin even the one's we don't know about is impossible, but repent is to turn to God. The message in that verse sends believers out to tell this impossible message. I love this scripture, even in this book there is hope to be found.
Lamentations 3:
21 Yet this I call to mind
and therefore I have hope:
22 Because of the Lord’s great love we are not consumed,
for his compassions never fail.
23 They are new every morning;
great is your faithfulness.
24 I say to myself, “The Lord is my portion;
therefore I will wait for him.”
25 The Lord is good to those whose hope is in him,
to the one who seeks him;
26 it is good to wait quietly
for the salvation of the Lord.
27 It is good for a man to bear the yoke
while he is young.
28 Let him sit alone in silence,
for the Lord has laid it on him.
29 Let him bury his face in the dust—
there may yet be hope.
30 Let him offer his cheek to one who would strike him,
and let him be filled with disgrace.
31 For no one is cast off
by the Lord forever.
32 Though he brings grief, he will show compassion,
so great is his unfailing love.
33 For he does not willingly bring affliction
or grief to anyone.
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So how does God commune with us today?God's presence was taken from man after adam's sin--because God cant be in the presence of Sin--God no longer walked with man in the day as he had done before--God still talked to man though but did not come down to man anymore in the same fashion
Didn't he give Cain a choice to do good and he would be accepted?
If he was not able to do good...why did God make that statement in Gen. 4:7?
HisWitness
New Member
I understand all do not come to Christ at the same time.
So you believe before the foundation of the World that Abel was chosen and Cain was condemned, correct?
I believe Abel was chosen for the purpose of God and Cain was also chosen to serve a purpose to show forth the ways of God through each of them both .
HisWitness
New Member
So how does God commune with us today?
Didn't he give Cain a choice to do good and he would be accepted?
If he was not able to do good...why did God make that statement in Gen. 4:7?
Saints have the indwelling Spirit of God within them to lead and guide.
he did give Cain a 2nd chance to make it right and cain refused.
HeirofSalvation
Not to burst your bubble big guy, but I clearly said that this was the goodness of God...and not the saving love of God which is only found in Christ. maybe your new friendship with Dr.Lies....has infected you.:thumbs:
.
You begin your argument merely by calling a new poster on this board "Dr. Lies"......
That's rich.
I agree with this! But what I am having trouble agreeing to is that some do not have a chance to have the indwelling Spirit and some do.Saints have the indwelling Spirit of God within them to lead and guide.
In your opinion...was Cain able to make the right choice? Did he have free will to chose?he did give Cain a 2nd chance to make it right and cain refused.
You begin your argument merely by calling a new poster on this board "Dr. Lies"......
That's rich.
The new poster has an old agenda. He refuses to own up to it. Seems acceptable to you guys....it is not aceptable to me. Also you have been a false witness against me. It has been exposed.
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What???I believe Abel was chosen for the purpose of God and Cain was also chosen to serve a purpose to show forth the ways of God through each of them both .
Did God condemn one and not the other? Was that God's choice? Did he prepare both their hearts to make the right descion?
HisWitness
New Member
I agree with this! But what I am having trouble agreeing to is that some do not have a chance to have the indwelling Spirit and some do.
In your opinion...was Cain able to make the right choice? Did he have free will to chose?
all have the chance to have the indwelling spirit--but they refuse because they want sin and are not willing to have God rule over them.
Cain was indeed able to do the right thing--but he chose to do evil instead
Again the problem is not that men don't have the ability to choose to do right but that man doesn't want to do right neither is man willing to have God over him.this takes the work of God to make man willing in the day of God's Power and cause the man to want God.
Psalm 80-19::TURN us again,O Lord God of hosts,CAUSE thy face to shine and we shall be saved.
Without God doing the work man is not willing to be turned and will not be turned--God causes man to turn and causes his face to shine so that man might be saved.
HisWitness
New Member
What???
Did God condemn one and not the other? Was that God's choice? Did he prepare both their hearts to make the right descion?
God condemned Cain because of cains wickedness--Cain chose to do wickedly.Was Cain's fault not God's.
The new poster has an old agenda. He refuses to own up to it. Seems acceptable to you guys....it is not aceptable to me. Also you have been a false witness against me. It has been exposed.
I've been a WHAT? against you?...........Grow a pair Icon.
saturneptune
New Member
A few of the posters on this thread post like there is a difference between them and Cain before salvation. Cain was a sinner, so was everyone on this thread. I assume all posters are saved, so since salvation, all posters are now like Abel. We all got there the same way, grace through faith in Jesus Christ.
The Lord has got to shake His head when we post an entire thread in the mindset of our opinion of what the word "fair" means. We do not begin to understand the eternal or the depths of God. Our thoughts are not God's thoughts. The theme runs through the thread, implied or not, that it is not "fair" for God to have chosen Abel and not Cain, as Cain did not have a "chance." All these conclusions come from flawed humans, like myself. What we are doing is putting God in a box, with the method He must be "fair" and give everyone a "chance." On the other side of the arugment, God is put in a box saying Cain had a "chance" even if not chosen, and that is "fair."
The point is we are not the Creator, but the created. It is a miracle we are here to type some of this nonsense. The created does not explain what the Creator does or how. The Creator lets the created know what He wants to. In our case, God chose love, mercy, grace, and forgiveness as a way for sinful man to be eternally with Him. Everyone of us deserve to be Cain, and only God in His love makes any of us Abel. How He does that is His business. No man comes to the Father than by Jesus Christ, and no man responds to the Gospel except by a touch from the same God in the form of the Holy Spirit. If God only saved one person in history, it would be more than we deserved. I see His choosing is quite abundent, as there are at least ten saved in this one thread.
We will never understand the depths of God's love this side of eternity. One thing that would be wise IMO, is to take words like fair and chance, and find different terms for God's love. Cain or Abel??? Same could be said for Issac instead of Ishamel, Jacob instead of Esau, David instead of Saul, the eleven disciples instead of Judas, Pharoah had no "chance"??? Annias and Saphira had no "chance" not "fair", Noah's family vs the rest of the world, "not fair" ???? Job, cant even figure that one out, can you?
Whatever knowledge each of you have to post was given to you from God. He, in His eternal purposes, saved each one of you. We should be thankful for what we have, and praise Him for it. Maybe if we did more of that and less debating on how it was accomplished, we would be clearer in our understanding of the Almighty.
The Lord has got to shake His head when we post an entire thread in the mindset of our opinion of what the word "fair" means. We do not begin to understand the eternal or the depths of God. Our thoughts are not God's thoughts. The theme runs through the thread, implied or not, that it is not "fair" for God to have chosen Abel and not Cain, as Cain did not have a "chance." All these conclusions come from flawed humans, like myself. What we are doing is putting God in a box, with the method He must be "fair" and give everyone a "chance." On the other side of the arugment, God is put in a box saying Cain had a "chance" even if not chosen, and that is "fair."
The point is we are not the Creator, but the created. It is a miracle we are here to type some of this nonsense. The created does not explain what the Creator does or how. The Creator lets the created know what He wants to. In our case, God chose love, mercy, grace, and forgiveness as a way for sinful man to be eternally with Him. Everyone of us deserve to be Cain, and only God in His love makes any of us Abel. How He does that is His business. No man comes to the Father than by Jesus Christ, and no man responds to the Gospel except by a touch from the same God in the form of the Holy Spirit. If God only saved one person in history, it would be more than we deserved. I see His choosing is quite abundent, as there are at least ten saved in this one thread.
We will never understand the depths of God's love this side of eternity. One thing that would be wise IMO, is to take words like fair and chance, and find different terms for God's love. Cain or Abel??? Same could be said for Issac instead of Ishamel, Jacob instead of Esau, David instead of Saul, the eleven disciples instead of Judas, Pharoah had no "chance"??? Annias and Saphira had no "chance" not "fair", Noah's family vs the rest of the world, "not fair" ???? Job, cant even figure that one out, can you?
Whatever knowledge each of you have to post was given to you from God. He, in His eternal purposes, saved each one of you. We should be thankful for what we have, and praise Him for it. Maybe if we did more of that and less debating on how it was accomplished, we would be clearer in our understanding of the Almighty.
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