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free will vs. election???????

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HisWitness

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preacher4truth said:
So what turned you into an Millennial Exclusionist? How long were you saved before you adopted this teaching?
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that big long word you used I don't know about--but if we have any truth at all--God has to give it too us--all others know to do since they haven't been shown at that time is to bash the ones who has been shown--the scripture also says that every idle word will come into judgement also--that will be burnt out of those who do such things also.
 
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preacher4truth

Active Member
HisWitness said:
that big long word you used I don't know about--but if we have any truth at all--God has to give it too us--all others know to do since they haven't been shown at that time is to bash the ones who has been shown--the scripture also says that every idle word will come into judgement also--that will be burnt out of those who do such things also.
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Certainly you know the term but I understand you must be covert.

Perhaps you're simply misinterpreting these passages as others have suggested.

In all honesty I see you bashing others as well for not sharing your views.
 
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HisWitness

New Member
preacher4truth said:
Certainly you know the term but I understand you must be covert.

Perhaps you're simply misinterpreting these passages as others have suggested.

In all honesty I see you bashing others as well for not sharing your views.
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pls explain to me what you view the FIRE in 1st Corinthians as being in the judgement of the Saints ?
 
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DrJamesAch

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Certainly Millennial Exclusion is not Biblical, but it's beyond ironic and downright comical to watch Amelliennial Calvinists who don't believe in a millennium AT ALL arguing with someone about ME :tonofbricks:

Hmmm...Orville Redenbacher or Purim Popcorn...decisions, decisions:tongue3: Like watching a 7th Day Adventist argue with a Jehovah's Witness about purgatory
 
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preacher4truth

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BaptistJG said:
you claimed you were a free-will guy, then you changed your mind. That would have been your will, so you would have had your hand forced if your pre-destined

just making everything consistent.
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You share the assumptive view that many hold to regarding free will. It's foundation is in tradition. But this is not new, these things have been debated for centuries.

My will wasn't changed when I discovered the lost do not have a free will - my will was changed when God saved me through His Son.

But let's not derail this thread anymore. Go start a new thread if you wish to discuss this topic. :thumbsup:

- Blessings
 
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preacher4truth

Active Member
HisWitness said:
seems as though you are afraid to share your view about the FIRE ??

Also I just made a new thread on the rich man and lazarus--whether its a parable or not--we can continue some discussions along these lines for all who wants too
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Not at all. It's better to see where you're going with all of this.

What is the FIRE to you?
 
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Gorship

Active Member
preacher4truth said:
You share the assumptive view that many hold to regarding free will. It's foundation is in tradition. But this is not new, these things have been debated for centuries.

My will wasn't changed when I discovered the lost do not have a free will - my will was changed when God saved me through His Son.

But let's not derail this thread anymore. Go start a new thread if you wish to discuss this topic. :thumbsup:

- Blessings
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This has everything to do with free-will still. I disagree with you when you say it doesn't. Free will doesnt start or end with salvation, either you have free will or not.

However If you want to keep this in regards to sotieriology we most definitely can. Im Glad you decided to place your faith in Christ.
 
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HisWitness

New Member
preacher4truth said:
You share the assumptive view that many hold to regarding free will. It's foundation is in tradition. But this is not new, these things have been debated for centuries.

My will wasn't changed when I discovered the lost do not have a free will - my will was changed when God saved me through His Son.

But let's not derail this thread anymore. Go start a new thread if you wish to discuss this topic. :thumbsup:

- Blessings
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they do have a free will just like adam did before the fall-they just choose evil and Sin over God everytime with their will--if their will was bound--then they would have a excuse before God that they were not able to choose him.

This does not negate that ONLY God can cause them to use their free will to choose him--because they love sin and pleasures more than God--it takes a work of God in their hearts to cause them to want God and in the day of God's power to cause them to be willing .:love2::love2:

By no means will man have an excuse before God--men today are giving mankind an excuse before God--which they will answer for also--BUT Man has NO excuse before God--he uses his free will for evil.
 
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preacher4truth

Active Member
BaptistJG said:
This has everything to do with free-will still. I disagree with you when you say it doesn't.
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Yes, agreed. I was thinking of another thread.


Free will doesnt start or end with salvation, either you have free will or not.
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Incorrect. Men are not free while in sin, they are enslaved. John 8. Romans 6. We are not saved by determinitive choice, John 1:13; Romans 9:16.

However If you want to keep this in regards to sotieriology we most definitely can. Im Glad you decided to place your faith in Christ.
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Faith is a gift, thus your decisional evangelsim falls short and is a misnomer -- this is not what took place. I realized I was saved, and that He chose me. The proof of such is in 1 Thess. 1:4ff. Nothing there talks about anyone choosing Him. Also see Titus. 1 & 2 Peter &c.
 
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preacher4truth

Active Member
HisWitness said:
they do have a free will just like adam did before the fall-they just choose evil and Sin over God everytime with their will--if their will was bound--then they would have a excuse before God that they were not able to choose him.
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Nonsense. A total straw man regarding true biblical soteriology. You're simply placing your opinion in Scripture and using an eisegetical analysis on which to base your erroneously garnered conclusions.

There will be no excuse, thus the responsibility of man and Sovereignty of God. You're giving man an excuse before God that it would be unjust to punish him if his will isn't free. That's exactly what you've implied.

God is just in showing mercy to whom He wills and punishing and hardening whom He wills. He's Sovereign in that way. You're showing you simply don't like that Sovereignty. Put it this way, God can damn any person He desires to damn, and to save whom He wills to save -- whether they have a free will or not -- in fact, He has done exactly this throughout history.

Another thing, of course it takes God to bring a person to will to be saved -- that's a given -- but this doesn't take place in every man woman and child, just as Jesus didn't go heal every single person -- but chose to whom He would heal at times. All of this for an illustration of His Sovereignty in salvation.



This does not negate that ONLY God can cause them to use their free will to choose him--because they love sin and pleasures more than God--it takes a work of God in their hearts to cause them to want God and in the day of God's power to cause them to be willing.
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Now you move from man saving himself by choice, and that if man doesn't have free will then God is unfair and must give it to him (as if man has rights) and of man in control of his own destiny in decisional evangelism to now moving toward giving God a little glory for it all.

How sweet.

Not really, it's quite patronizing.

By no means will man have an excuse before God--men today are giving mankind an excuse before God--which they will answer for also--BUT Man has NO excuse before God--he uses his free will for evil.
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Straw man argument. Mans will isn't free. He's enslaved to sin, only Jesus makes us free. You do err greatly. You have something to boast in -- that you chose -- but there is no boasting in salvation.

1 Corinthians 1:26-31 shows that it is God who chose and there is no boasting nor is there any factor in salvation to which man could boast (to which you leave ample room for) and which is in fact what you are actually doing.

You should underline 'God chose' in this passage and thank Him salvation only comes by His choice.

- Blessings
 
G

Gorship

Active Member
preacher4truth said:
Incorrect. Men are not free while in sin, they are enslaved. John 8. Romans 6. We are not saved by determinitive choice, John 1:13; Romans 9:16.
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We definitely are all sinners as your scriptures suggest. This does not inhibit our ability to accept Gods Gift. When Christmas happens and you get a gift, and it has your name on it, do you take it and open it? of course you do, so if the cheque was written for the penalty of sin. For all those that believe in Christ if they will take it. Then those will take it will be saved.

Also, The scriptures John 1:13 and Romans 9:16, in context don't inhibit our will to choose Christ.

Faith is a gift, thus your decisional evangelsim falls short and is a misnomer -- this is not what took place. I realized I was saved, and that He chose me. The proof of such is in 1 Thess. 1:4ff. Nothing there talks about anyone choosing Him. Also see Titus. 1 & 2 Peter &c.
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You realized you were saved? so this is the whole... predestined thing showing itself (im not smart like you guys) so you were predestined, but my family was not or may not be, God loves some and not all. Certainly the idea that God loves the world was made known in John 3:16, where "world" is kos-mos, and whosoever means all or any, so any who believeth in Him will have eternal life.

Revalation 21:6
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

John 3:16
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Acts 16:31
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Romans 10:12-15
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
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Why send a preacher if they are predestined? why even bother calling if they are elect regardless.
 
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