Free Will

[Revmitchell]

Yes I do, How about you?
MB

What passage of scripture do you find "Trinity" in?

 

[agedman]

A difficulty that many stumble is that absolutely nothing of the first Adam enters the new heaven and earth.

Scriptures state that believers are a “new creation” that “all things have passed away all is new”.

That new creation includes a new will.

Believers are not remodeled, remade, reformed or any other suggestion that such of this flesh and of this life (blood) enter heaven.

The closest is the daily “renewal of the mind” that must happen as we must be cleansed by the Word.

 

[agedman]

And this is where the debate typically breaks down. The question is not, "do humans have the ability to be righteous?" The answer is a resounding, NO.

The real question is:
Does man have the ability to believe the gospel?

according to John 1, such authority is not granted to all, but is given to a select few.

other Scriptures recently posted as threads sustain such as John stated.

 

[Revmitchell]

According to John 1:12 man does have the ability to believe as does Romans 1 & 10

 

[InTheLight]

according to John 1, such authority is not granted to all, but is given to a select few.

John 1
6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7 This man came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all through him might believe.
8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
9 That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world.

 

[Particular]

No, because that is a false dilemma you just stated. No one is saying God's will is overridden by free will, except you, in your own mind. If God's will is to give humans free will to believe the gospel then how can it be overridden if man has free will?



Based on previous posts I think this is what Rev believes, but I'm no mind reader so I don't know for sure.

The dilemma is this. Either God wills all humans to make their own choice or God wills that all will be saved.
One of those two cannot happen as they conflict with each other.

How do you juxtapose these two conflicting positions?

 

[Particular]

Yes I do, How about you?
MB

Which version?

 

[Particular]

And this is where the debate typically breaks down. The question is not, "do humans have the ability to be righteous?" The answer is a resounding, NO.

The real question is:
Does man have the ability to believe the gospel?

This begs the next question. Once believing, does man have the ability to disbelieve the gospel?

 

[MB]

What passage of scripture do you find "Trinity" in?

You didn't answer the question. I will not reply anymore to your nonsense.
MB

 

[Revmitchell]

You didn't answer the question. I will not reply anymore to your nonsense.
MB

Look you are saying the word "Sovereign" is not in the bible but neither is Trinity. My point is that just because the word we use to describe a doctrine is not in the bible, like Trinity, doesn't mean it is wrong. The word Sovereign is used to encompass all the aspects of Gods power and authority. Do not just brush it off because you see it coming from calvies. Everyone uses it not just calvies.

 

[MB]

Sure it's wrong the word Sovereign is defined by them as absolute control over every aspect in life including sin. You simply don't know what you are talking about. You're just looking for something to judge me on and you can't find anything else.
I'm reminded of this verse.
Mat_7:5 Hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye, and then thou shalt see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
MB.

 

[loDebar]

The dilemma is this. Either God wills all humans to make their own choice or God wills that all will be saved.
One of those two cannot happen as they conflict with each other.

How do you juxtapose these two conflicting positions?

He gaves us free will or we could not have sinned. To say one does not have free will blames God for sin.

 

[Revmitchell]

Sure it's wrong the word Sovereign is defined by them as absolute control over every aspect in life including sin. You simply don't know what you are talking about. You're just looking for something to judge me on and you can't find anything else.
I'm reminded of this verse.
Mat_7:5 Hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye, and then thou shalt see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
MB.

You are paranoid.

 

[loDebar]

What passage of scripture do you find "Trinity" in?

Mat 28:19

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

1Jo 5:7

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one

 

[Particular]

He gaves us free will or we could not have sinned. To say one does not have free will blames God for sin.

Nice try, but you failed to answer the question.

Either God wills all humans to make their own choice or God wills that all will be saved.
One of those two cannot happen as they conflict with each other.

So far, Rev has responded with a deep response that answered nothing. He said: "Why?" He tends to not answer when he sees his dilemma.
I believe utilyan responded with something irrelevant and now you don't answer.

 

[loDebar]

Nice try, but you failed to answer the question.

Either God wills all humans to make their own choice or God wills that all will be saved.
One of those two cannot happen as they conflict with each other.

So far, Rev has responded with a deep response that answered nothing. He said: "Why?" He tends to not answer when he sees his dilemma.
I believe utilyan responded with something irrelevant and now you don't answer.

no dilemma just misunderstanding

you realize all are condemned, destined for hell.

God does not will us to free choice. He has already created us with the ability to freely love and obey Him, or not in free choice. The ability to sin is the same ability not to sin

God does want all to be saved but He does not force us either way.

He stands at the door and knocks, Opening the door is up to us.

 

[MB]

You are paranoid.

You are really confused.
MB

 

[InTheLight]

The dilemma is this. Either God wills all humans to make their own choice or God wills that all will be saved.

Do you simply make this stuff up in your head and think it's a sophisticated quandary? There is no reason that those two items are the be-all, end-all choice.

How do you juxtapose these two conflicting positions?

I don't "juxtapose" them. You do.

 

[InTheLight]

This begs the next question. Once believing, does man have the ability to disbelieve the gospel?

"Begging the question" means you must assume something is true to try to prove a point you are making. It doesn't mean because of this question, there must be a follow up question.

Example: People don't have free will because if they did, all would be saved.

 

[Particular]

Do you simply make this stuff up in your head and think it's a sophisticated quandary? There is no reason that those two items are the be-all, end-all choice.



I don't "juxtapose" them. You do.

Then you just ignore the obvious contradiction and deny it. Unfortunately for you, the Bible doesn't teach what you teach.