God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved

[SavedByGrace]

If the Lord Jesus did die in the stead of all lost sinners, as their personal substitute, then how can any be judged to hell, since the Lord Himself died to atone for their sins?

"But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought* them, and bring on themselves swift destruction" (2 Peter 2:1)

* same Greek word, "ἀγοράζω", used in 1 Cor. 6:20 (you were bought with a price); and 7:23; Rev 5:9

 

[SavedByGrace]

There it is. Thank you.

1st: Where does the Bible say the offer of salvation is a “free-will offering”?

2nd: You stated God is able to do as He pleases (I agree) and then that God chose the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.

If God desired every single person on the planet, without exception, to be saved, why did He choose the preaching of the gospel as the means of bringing salvation to His people? A method that ensured billions of people would live and die never hearing the gospel.

peace to you

1. "25 God presented (προτίθημι, "offered", Moulton/Milligan Greek lexicon) Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26 he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus." (Romans 3)

2. "11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness." (2 Thessalonians 2)

"Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them" (John 3:36)

"39 You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, 40 yet you refuse to come to me to have life." (John 5)

God knows the best way to reach lost sinners, and He in His Wisdom chose preaching of the Good News.

 

[Yeshua1]

1. "25 God presented (προτίθημι, "offered", Moulton/Milligan Greek lexicon) Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26 he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus." (Romans 3)

2. "11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness." (2 Thessalonians 2)

"Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them" (John 3:36)

"39 You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, 40 yet you refuse to come to me to have life." (John 5)

God knows the best way to reach lost sinners, and He in His Wisdom chose preaching of the Good News.

The good news is good towards those who have been granted ears to hear!

 

[canadyjd]

1. "25 God presented (προτίθημι, "offered", Moulton/Milligan Greek lexicon) Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26 he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus." (Romans 3)

2. "11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness." (2 Thessalonians 2)

"Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them" (John 3:36)

"39 You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, 40 yet you refuse to come to me to have life." (John 5)

God knows the best way to reach lost sinners, and He in His Wisdom chose preaching of the Good News.

Thanks for the passages, but you ignored my questions which means you cannot answer them.

peace to you

 

[AustinC]

looks like you cannot understand the English language

TOSH?
Take over shoe horn?

 

[AustinC]

"But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought* them, and bring on themselves swift destruction" (2 Peter 2:1)

* same Greek word, "ἀγοράζω", used in 1 Cor. 6:20 (you were bought with a price); and 7:23; Rev 5:9

What does this have to do with the topic?
Are you claiming that all who teach that God's atoning sacrifice pays the penalty of sin makes them false prophets?
I've seen you do this before when you fail to argue your point. Is it your last escape verse so you don't have to face your error?

 

[Steven Yeadon]

A few questions...

Why does God not save all (if you don’t believe all are saved)?

Is God not able to save all He desires to be saved?

Do you believe God must intervene through Holy Spirit in a person’s life before that person will come to saving faith?

If you believe God Holy Spirit must intervene in a person’s life, does He use the same amount of influence on every single person on the earth whether or not they ever hear the gospel during their life times?

Do you believe people can come to salvation after they die?

Peace to you

I will answer this. God has a purpose in allowing some to hell. To reveal His wrath fully and reveal the riches of His glory to the saints.

 

[Steven Yeadon]

1. "25 God presented (προτίθημι, "offered", Moulton/Milligan Greek lexicon) Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26 he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus." (Romans 3)

2. "11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness." (2 Thessalonians 2)

"Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them" (John 3:36)

"39 You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, 40 yet you refuse to come to me to have life." (John 5)

God knows the best way to reach lost sinners, and He in His Wisdom chose preaching of the Good News.

I would compare Christ more to the snake lifted up in the desert (John 3:14).

 

[canadyjd]

I will answer this. God has a purpose in allowing some to hell. To reveal His wrath fully and reveal the riches of His glory to the saints.

Thanks for the input.

So, you agree that God desires every single person that has ever lived to be saved?

However, even though He desires them to be saved, He purposely condemns some to hell so His wrath is revealed as well as the riches of His glory to the saints. Is that correct?

peace to you

 

[Steven Yeadon]

Thanks for the input.

So, you agree that God desires every single person that has ever lived to be saved?

However, even though He desires them to be saved, He purposely condemns some to hell so His wrath is revealed as well as the riches of His glory to the saints. Is that correct?

peace to you

Yes.

 

[Iconoclast]

"But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought* them, and bring on themselves swift destruction" (2 Peter 2:1)

* same Greek word, "ἀγοράζω", used in 1 Cor. 6:20 (you were bought with a price); and 7:23; Rev 5:9

This language is used here also of false teachers
deut32
5 They have corrupted themselves, their spot is not the spot of his children: they are a perverse and crooked generation.

6 Do ye thus requite the Lord, O foolish people and unwise? is not he thy father that hath bought thee? hath he not made thee, and established thee?

 

[Dave G]

Here we have one of the clearest passages in the Bible, for the Universal Death for the Salvation of the entire human race. This is known as "pontential" salvation.

" But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 that being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. " ( Titus 3:4-7 ).

Here we have one of the clearest, most succinct passages in the Bible that describes for us who is actually responsible for the believer's salvation...
The Lord and Him alone.

This is known as "Definite Salvation".

 

[Dave G]

In every instance in this passage, the word "ALL", refers, not, as some teach, to just an "elect" few, but the whole human race.

In every instance in the OP's posted verse, we can and do find that the Bible has much more to say on this passage...
Which, when isolated from those other things, can and does appear to say what the OP has indicated.

However, God's word, when taken as a whole and filled in with the details of other passages that deal with how and why He saved any of us, tells us that salvation is a work initiated by God and completed by God:
" being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform [it] until the day of Jesus Christ:" ( Philippians 1:6 ).

That it was given to believers, by God and in the behalf of Christ, to believe and to suffer for His sake:

" For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;" ( Philippians 1:29 ).

In the light of the passages that deal with election and God's having prepared vessels of mercy for His glory ( Romans 9:22-24 ), we come to see that the Gospel is not only a sure work of God towards the objects of His mercy and grace, but that the Lord does not wait on mere men who are rebellious and unwilling to come to Him ( John 3:19-20 ), but instead graciously bestows His gifts to whomsoever He pleases according to the same mercy and compassion ( Romans 9:14-18 ).

Therefore, the gift of God is not a potential, and never was.
It is a sure thing for the "whosoever believeth".

 

[Dave G]

No honest, Bible-believing Christian can take these words in any other way, unless for theological bias, than for what it very plainly says, that God desires (wills) that the whole human race were saved. This is exactly what the Apostle John says in his Gospel, 3:16.

This is the heart of the God of the Holy Bible. Yet there are some who oppose this.

No discerning Bible believer who is indwelt by the Holy Ghost and who has been soberly impressed of their need of a Saviour in the light of all that God's word has to say about their condition, would ever stop at passages like this to define who they are in Christ...
But would instead move on to the rest of what God's word has to say about any given subject.

When they do, they find that the heart of the Gospel is this:

God's unmerited mercy and grace to sinners that does not wait on us to take advantage of a potential that we, in our hard-heartedness, would never participate in were it not for His miraculous power.

May God bless you in all in your studies of His precious words.

 

[SavedByGrace]

" But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7 that being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. " ( Titus 3:4-7 ).

Here we have one of the clearest, most succinct passages in the Bible that describes for us who is actually responsible for the believer's salvation...
The Lord and Him alone.

This is known as "Definite Salvation".

you are not dealing with the OP

 

[SavedByGrace]

In every instance in the OP's posted verse, we can and do find that the Bible has much more to say on this passage...
Which, when isolated from those other things, can and does appear to say what the OP has indicated.

However, God's word, when taken as a whole and filled in with the details of other passages that deal with how and why He saved any of us, tells us that salvation is a work initiated by God and completed by God:
" being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform [it] until the day of Jesus Christ:" ( Philippians 1:6 ).

That it was given to believers, by God and in the behalf of Christ, to believe and to suffer for His sake:

" For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;" ( Philippians 1:29 ).

In the light of the passages that deal with election and God's having prepared vessels of mercy for His glory ( Romans 9:22-24 ), we come to see that the Gospel is not only a sure work of God towards the objects of His mercy and grace, but that the Lord does not wait on mere men who are rebellious and unwilling to come to Him ( John 3:19-20 ), but instead graciously bestows His gifts to whomsoever He pleases according to the same mercy and compassion ( Romans 9:14-18 ).

Therefore, the gift of God is not a potential, and never was.
It is a sure thing for the "whosoever believeth".

again, typical "reformed" response, to aviod what the OP actually says. It is about the Gospel Message being preached. That is it!

 

[SavedByGrace]

God's unmerited mercy and grace to sinners

indeed, to ALL sinners, and just the "elect" that some have corrupted the Gospel to mean!

 

[Marooncat79]

If God truly deaires what you think He desires, then His perfectly will is not being realized thus He is not the God of the Bible

The God of the Bible rules with Wisdom, Power and Love and is an Awesome God. The will of the God of the Bible is always performed exactly. God is not fretting over some unbelieving of the Gospel


I think Ill write a song about it

 

[SavedByGrace]

When Paul says in 1 Timothy 1:15, "Faithful is the saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief". Does he here mean that Jesus Christ came into the world to save "the elect"? If this is the case, then are we to conclude that those who are the "non-elect", are not "sinners"? And, in Romans 5:6, Paul says that Jesus died for the "ungodly", if this is exclusive for the "elect", then all the "non-elect" must be "godly"! In 1 Peter 3:18, we read, "For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous". Are we here to believe that the "unrighteous", for whom Christ suffered for their sins, are to be restricted to the "elect", only, again, this would mean that those who are the "non-elect", must be "righteous"! The "theories" of the Reformed/Calvinstic theology are clear when compared to what the Bible actually Teaches.

 

[SavedByGrace]

If God truly deaires what you think He desires, then His perfectly will is not being realized thus He is not the God of the Bible

The God of the Bible rules with Wisdom, Power and Love and is an Awesome God. The will of the God of the Bible is always performed exactly. God is not fretting over some unbelieving of the Gospel


I think Ill write a song about it

what exactly are you trying to say, because what you have said, makes no sense