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God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved

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George Antonios

George Antonios

Well-Known Member
SavedByGrace said:
"1Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men, 2for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence. 3For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, 6who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time" (1 Timothy 2)

Here we have one of the clearest passages in the Bible, for the Universal Death for the Salvation of the entire human race. This is known as "pontential" salvation.

In every instance in this passage, the word "ALL", refers, not, as some teach, to just an "elect" few, but the whole human race. The "ALL men", here include "ALL those in authority", as kings and other leaders. There is no restriction here that this is limited to only a few leaders, but ALL. Then Paul informs us, that it is "good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior", that we pray for this, because God, "DESIRES" the salvation of ALL MEN, those ALL mentioned earlier. Further, we read that Jesus Christ is the "Mediator between God and men,", that is, the ALL MEN in this passage, the human race. It then says that Jesus Christ, "gave Himself a ransom for all", the same ALL in this entire passage.

No honest, Bible-believing Christian can take these words in any other way, unless for theological bias, than for what it very plainly says, that God desires (wills) that the whole human race were saved. This is exactly what the Apostle John says in his Gospel, 3:16.

This is the heart of the God of the Holy Bible. Yet there are some who oppose this.
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Agreed.
 
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Yeshua1

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SavedByGrace said:
Indeed, I have always said that no sinner can get up one day, and say, "I want to believe in, and follow Jesus as my Saviour today"! This is humanly impossible. God MUST take the first step in "convicting" the sinner, as Jesus Himself says at the start of John chapter 16, where He says the Coming of the Holy Spirit, will "convict the world of sin...because they do not believe in Me" (8-9). It is because "God first loved us" (1 John 4:19), that we would even bother!
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Those whom God convicts and draws to Jesus shall be all saved!
 
SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
Yeshua1 said:
Those whom God convicts and draws to Jesus shall be all saved!
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this would then make God "a respecter of persons", which is not possible. If Jesus died for ALL, then ALL must have the God-given ability to accept the Gospel for their salvation, or else it is no more than a farce!
 
SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
Yeshua1 said:
mark 10:45
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I will answer from John's Calvin's own words on Mark 14:24, "And He said to them, This is My blood, that of the New Covenant, which is poured out concerning many", which is very simliar to the other Mark text you quote:

"Which is shed for many. By the word many he means not a part of the world only, but the whole human race; for he contrasts many with one; as if he had said, that he will not be the Redeemer of one man only, but will die in order to deliver many from the condemnation of the curse."

This is from the guy who is supposed to be the basis of "Calvinism"!
 
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Yeshua1

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SavedByGrace said:
I will answer from John's Calvin's own words on Mark 14:24, "And He said to them, This is My blood, that of the New Covenant, which is poured out concerning many", which is very simliar to the other Mark text you quote:

"Which is shed for many. By the word many he means not a part of the world only, but the whole human race; for he contrasts many with one; as if he had said, that he will not be the Redeemer of one man only, but will die in order to deliver many from the condemnation of the curse."

This is from the guy who is supposed to be the basis of "Calvinism"!
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Calvin stated right here though that the death was basis for the many to get saved
 
37818

37818

Well-Known Member
While this thread is well intended.

According to God's word Universalism is not true.

Those who perish will not have their name in the book of life, Revelation 20:15.
 
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AustinC

Well-Known Member
SavedByGrace said:
THREE distinct classes mentioned here, 1, "ALL people"; 2. "kings"; 3. "ALL in high positions". It is these ALL that God desires to be saved and for whom Jesus died.

I doubt if either of our positions will change here, so I won't be spending any more time on this with you. I will you well in your life.
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Let us look at John 11:49-52.

But one of them, Caiaphas, who was high priest that year, said to them, “You know nothing at all. Nor do you understand that it is better for you that one man should die for the people, not that the whole nation should perish.” He did not say this of his own accord, but being high priest that year he prophesied that Jesus would die for the nation, and not for the nation only, but also to gather into one the children of God who are scattered abroad.

Please note what is very clearly shared here by God, through John.
Who does Jesus die for?
1) The nation of Israel
2) The children of God

His death is not a universal death. His death is a limited death for those who are the children of God who are scattered abroad.

So, you can avoid what Paul teaches in 1 Timothy 2 and you can avoid what is prophesied here in John 11. You can ignore John 6, John 10 and John 17. You can desperately cling to an interpretation not supported by God's word. But, don't lie and say that "scripture does not say." Scripture does say...and you do not believe what it says.
 
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Steven Yeadon

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37818 said:
While this thread is well intended.

According to God's word Universalism is not true.

Those who perish will not have their name in the book of life, Revelation 20:15.
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Names are blotted out of the book God is writing.

Exodus 32:32
Psalms 69:28
Revelation 3:5
 
George Antonios

George Antonios

Well-Known Member
AustinC said:
Please note what is very clearly shared here by God, through John.
Who does Jesus die for?
1) The nation of Israel
2) The children of God

His death is not a universal death. His death is a limited death for those who are the children of God who are scattered abroad.
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the children of God that were scattered abroad are Jews of the diaspora.

That the Jews are children of God nationally is clear from: Deu_14:1 Ye are the children of the LORD your God: ye shall not cut yourselves, nor make any baldness between your eyes for the dead.

And that many Jews were then scattered is clear from: John 7:35 Then said the Jews among themselves, Whither will he go, that we shall not find him? will he go unto the dispersed among the Gentiles, and teach the Gentiles? And Zec_7:14 But I scattered them with a whirlwind among all the nations whom they knew not. Thus the land was desolate after them, that no man passed through nor returned: for they laid the pleasant land desolate.

Like the OP said, only an a priori theological bias can turn children of God into a group of elect people from eternity past by a mysterious decree of God.
 
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Steven Yeadon

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AustinC said:
Do you see your contradiction?

"God does not want any to perish."

"The reason some do perish is because God wants to reveal His wrath fully."

Which is it, Steve?
If God doesn't want any to perish, how can he want to reveal His wrath on some? His wants would contradict itself and leave God confused.

I suggest you search scripture to see what God actually says.
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I believe in Synergism. I explained why hell exists for those that hate God and His Son. That is all.
 
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AustinC

Well-Known Member
AustinC said:
Do you see your contradiction?

"God does not want any to perish."

"The reason some do perish is because God wants to reveal His wrath fully."

Which is it, Steve?
If God doesn't want any to perish, how can he want to reveal His wrath on some? His wants would contradict itself and leave God confused.

I suggest you search scripture to see what God actually says.
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Steven Yeadon said:
Can you explain more clearly what contradiction you are seeing?
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Probably not. If you can't understand what I first wrote, I don't think I can dumb it down lower.
 
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