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God wants all men to be saved

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agedman

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" That whosoever believeth on him may not perish. It is a remarkable commendation of faith, that it frees us from everlasting destruction. For he intended expressly to state that, though we appear to have been born to death, undoubted deliverance is offered to us by the faith of Christ; and, therefore, that we ought not to fear death, which otherwise hangs over us. And he has employed the universal term whosoever, both to invite all indiscriminately to partake of life, and to cut off every excuse from unbelievers. Such is also the import of the term World, which he formerly used; for though nothing will be found in the world that is worthy of the favor of God, yet he shows himself to be reconciled to the whole world, when he invites all men without exception to the faith of Christ, which is nothing else than an entrance into life." (Commentary on John)

Note the words that I have made bold. Language that no "Calvinist" would use for this verse! "all men without exception", which hardly "Calvinistic" language, which is "without distinction"! Then on Mark 14:24, " Which is shed for many. By the word many he means not a part of the world only, but the whole human race". IF, as some suppose, that this "Limited Atonement" as part of the 5 Points (T.U.L.I.P.), is from John Calvin's teachings, then he could never have written these words on Mark 14:24. Note the careful language, "not part of the world", which is exactly what Limited Atonement teaches, that only a "part", that is, "the elect", is who Christ died for. No, says Calvin, "the WHOLE human race", is included in the death of the Lord Jesus Christ! AMEN!!!. One more example from Calvin. Colossians 1:14, " He says that this redemption was procured through the blood of Christ, for by the sacrifice of his death all the sins of the world have been expiated". Dr R T Kendall (among other Calvinists, like Richard Baxter, John Bunyan, John Newton, John Brown, and others), believed and taught that Jesus Christ died for the WHOLE WORLD WITHOUT EXCEPTION. Writing on the term "world" in John 3:16, which many Calvinists take to mean "elect", Dr Robert Dabney, himself a Calvinist, says, "But there are others of these passages, to which I think, the candid mind will admit, this sort of explanation is inapplicable. In Jno. iii.16, make 'the world' which Christ loved, to mean 'the elect world', and we reach the absurdity, that some of the elect may not believe, and perish" (Systematic Theology, page 525). Dr Dabney is addressing the passages where terms like "all", etc can have limited meanings, as we as what it actually says. Clearly to the "candid" mind, no limit can be placed on "the world", for which Jesus Christ loved, and died!

In Luke's account of the Lord's Supper, we read the following,

"Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you. But behold, the hand of My betrayer is with Me on the table" (22:20-21)

The word "you" is in the plural number, which would include Judas, who also partook of the cup which represented Jesus "blood" shed for the sins also of Judas on the cross. There are some who argue that Judas was not present for the Lord's Supper, but only for the Passover meal. I quote from two prominent Calvinistic commentator's, on this passage.

"From Luke's account it appears most clearly, that Judas was not only at the passover, but at the Lord's supper, since this was said when both were over" (John Gill)

"it seems plain that Judas did receive the Lord's supper, did eat of that bread and drink of that cup; for, after the solemnity was over, Christ said, Behold, the hand of him that betrayeth me is with me on the table. There have been those that have eaten bread with Christ and yet have betrayed him" (Matthew Henry)

It should be observed, that the timing of the institution of the Lord's Supper is very important. Jesus makes sure that Judas, then one who would betray Him, was also present when He addressed His words, "My blood which is shed for YOU", which without any doubt included Judas. Had Jesus' death not been also for Judas, and those who are not of the so-called "elect", then surely Jesus would have waited for Judas to have left the room, which he did not much later, and then instituted the Lord's Supper, which included Jesus' words for whom this was intended.

This should not come as a surprise to anyone who knows the heart of the God of the Holy Bible. For we read in places like Ezekiel 18:21-23,

“But if a wicked man turns from all his sins which he has committed, keeps all My statutes, and does what is lawful and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die. None of the transgressions which he has committed shall be remembered against him; because of the righteousness which he has done, he shall live. Do I have any pleasure at all that the wicked should die?” says the Lord God, “and not that he should turn from his ways and live?"

It is abundantly clear that the Lord does NOT desire any of the wicked lost to go to hell, as some who profess Jesus Christ do!
All this does not apply to the OP quote of Peter.

Unless you can prove that Peter was not addressing the issue of why the Lord's return was delayed, then ranting off in the pursuit of a rabid is not the quality of a good hound dog. (taken from an illustration used by Dr. Bob Jones, Sr.).

Should you want to grind into the other aspects of what you posted then by all means, start another thread.

But this thread is specific to Peter's statement, is it not?

And to that end, there is no other proper rendering then that which follows the pronouns which places the delay as allowing for those elect who have yet to hear the gospel, have yet to respond to the work of the Holy Spirit in their life to have that time God appoints for them. Therefore, the delay as Peter states and the why of the delay as Peter states.

Peter does not make the lost the "us." As I explained in an earlier post.
 

agedman

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Joshua 24 is after the fall, and clearly people were asked to CHOOSE, something only possible if they had FREE WILL!
Perhaps you do not consider that people have freedom of the fallen will to choose all that is within the nature of the fallen.

The dirty tail of a dog wagging against the clean sheets hanging out to dry on the clothes line does not make the dog clean, nor the sheets clean.

There is NO ability of the unrighteous to choose that which is righteous.

That some desire such ability and would attempt to conform Scriptures into such ability is not making such ability available to the fallen heathen who "have all gone astray," and "no one seeks God."
 

Revmitchell

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You hold that Jesus purchased salvation for sinners still in hell than?

I hold that the grace and salvation is freely offered to everyone not just the elect. Everyone has the ability to accept it or reject it. Everyone who accepts it will be "in Him" "born again" and will be raised up on the last day. I hold that God draws everyone by the preaching of the gospel but not all that are drawn will receive His offer of grace.
 

Revmitchell

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Perhaps you do not consider that people have freedom of the fallen will to choose all that is within the nature of the fallen.

Everyone has a sin nature.


There is NO ability of the unrighteous to choose that which is righteous.

That is where the preaching of the gospel comes in. The gospel itself has the power unto salvation. Faith comes from hearing the gospel preached. The gospel alone draws us to God.

That some desire such ability and would attempt to conform Scriptures into such ability is not making such ability available to the fallen heathen who "have all gone astray," and "no one seeks God."

The church takes the gospel to the lost world who does not seek God. There the preaching of the gospel has the power unto salvation.
 

Yeshua1

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I hold that the grace and salvation is freely offered to everyone not just the elect. Everyone has the ability to accept it or reject it. Everyone who accepts it will be "in Him" "born again" and will be raised up on the last day. I hold that God draws everyone by the preaching of the gospel but not all that are drawn will receive His offer of grace.
Everyone had a real offer to get saved, but those who are not elected unto salvation will exercise their "free will" to keep on rejecting Christ!
 

Iconoclast

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the context with the correct reading as YOU, is not about believers, but the "scoffers and mockers". The words of verse 9 are completely pointless if addressed to "believers", because they are already saved, and can never be lost, so why should God be "not willing that any one the elect be lost", when they CANNOT!
Those elected by God...are born children of wrath...even as others.....There are still more elect persons to be saved...there are more to be born...so God is longsuffering putting up with the wicked until the fullness of the elect are saved
 

Yeshua1

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Everyone has a sin nature.




That is where the preaching of the gospel comes in. The gospel itself has the power unto salvation. Faith comes from hearing the gospel preached. The gospel alone draws us to God.



The church takes the gospel to the lost world who does not seek God. There the preaching of the gospel has the power unto salvation.
The Gospel by itself can save no sinner, for the Holy Spirit has to enable them to believe it and get saved!
 

Iconoclast

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Everyone has a sin nature.




That is where the preaching of the gospel comes in. The gospel itself has the power unto salvation. Faith comes from hearing the gospel preached. The gospel alone draws us to God.



The church takes the gospel to the lost world who does not seek God. There the preaching of the gospel has the power unto salvation.
Notice here, RM does not think the Spirit has to do the supernatural...man has full ability in RM's presentation.
 

Iconoclast

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No, it is not! It is complete nonsense for Peter to say that "God is unwilling for the elect" not to perish, when they CANNOT! Why say what is not possible? The context is to the "mockers and scoffers", which is included in the correct text with YOU and not US!
You miss the whole passage...Agedman put it out well.
 

Revmitchell

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Everyone had a real offer to get saved, but those who are not elected unto salvation will exercise their "free will" to keep on rejecting Christ!

If their nature is not changed (as you cals put it) equally as are the elect then it is false that they received a real offer.
 

Saved-By-Grace

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Those elected by God...are born children of wrath...even as others.....There are still more elect persons to be saved...there are more to be born...so God is longsuffering putting up with the wicked until the fullness of the elect are saved

what rubbish! this is NOT what this passage says, you are twisting Scripture to suite your theology!
 

Yeshua1

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If their nature is not changed (as you cals put it) equally as are the elect then it is false that they received a real offer.
No, for all who reject Jesus and stay lost have a real offer, as they are doing what they "freely want to do"
 

Saved-By-Grace

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You hold that Jesus purchased salvation for sinners still in hell than?

You, nor any other who believe your "theology" has dealt with the FACT, that Luke 22 shows beyond any doubt that Jesus died for Judas, who is not in heaven. Now, show this to be wrong?
 

Saved-By-Grace

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Actually, he is giving its intended meaning!

No, this is theological bias, and not what the Bible says. Again I say, WHY would God not be willing that any of the elect are lost, when indeed they CANNOT? This whole verse is nonsense if limited to them.
 
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