God wants all men to be saved

[Iconoclast]

"Saved-By-Grace,

They perish because they did not accept the love of the truth in order to be saved.

Multitudes have lived and died with unrepented of sin. Many have never heard the gospel a have perished...Multitudes died in the flood, the whole world of the ungodly perished....God was very willing to destroy them all...
7 And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

opps..looks very much like Gods will was to destroy man here...

 

[Iconoclast]

So do the wicked non-Calvinists.

okay...so explain 2pet 3...the whole chapter...go for it...I say not one person spoken of in verse 9 perishes...you give your thoughts

 

[Iconoclast]

This is His wondrous love towards the human race, that He desires all men to be saved!

yes..like here;
7 And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.....

5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

16 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.

 

[Iconoclast]

Because not all men desire to be saved

really...what makes someone desire to be saved?
14 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

2 The Lord looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God.

3 They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

 

[Felipe Rios]

2Pe_3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

God does not want just some men but all men to be saved. This scripture is clear and it is a lie straight from the pit of hell that says God does not want all men to be saved but only some men of all nations.

Question for the Calvinist. Because I am not a Calvinist, does that mean I have been predestined by God to be a non-Calvinist?

 

[InTheLight]

Question for the Calvinist. Because I am not a Calvinist, does that mean I have been predestined by God to be a non-Calvinist?

Yes! Yes! I thank God that he predestined me to be a non-Cal!

 

[Yeshua1]

Because not all men desire to be saved

So the will of man can and does hinder and stop the will of God from getting done then?

 

[Felipe Rios]

really...what makes someone desire to be saved?
14 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

2 The Lord looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God.

3 They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

When God draws people to Him, that's where he gives the ability to des

So the will of man can and does hinder and stop the will of God from getting done then?

When it comes to salvation yes.

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

1 Timothy 2:3-4

"God our Saviour who desires have ALL MEN to be saved"

"All men" here cannot mean only the "elect" as some suppose, because God, through Paul, has told us exactly who these are:

"I exhort therefore, first of all, that supplications, prayers, intercessions, thanksgivings, be made for all men; for kings and all that are in high place; that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and gravity. This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; who would have all men to be saved, and come to the knowledge of the truth. (1-4). And then goes on to say of these ALL, "For there is one God, one mediator also between God and men, himself man, Christ Jesus, who gave himself a ransom for all" (verses 5-6). The same ALL mentioned in verses 1-2 ALL MEN (humans).

 

[Yeshua1]

When God draws people to Him, that's where he gives the ability to des

When it comes to salvation yes.

So God is no longer sovereign?

 

[Iconoclast]

1 Timothy 2:3-4

"God our Saviour who desires have ALL MEN to be saved"

"All men" here cannot mean only the "elect" as some suppose, because God, through Paul, has told us exactly who these are:

"I exhort therefore, first of all, that supplications, prayers, intercessions, thanksgivings, be made for all men; for kings and all that are in high place; that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and gravity. This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; who would have all men to be saved, and come to the knowledge of the truth. (1-4). And then goes on to say of these ALL, "For there is one God, one mediator also between God and men, himself man, Christ Jesus, who gave himself a ransom for all" (verses 5-6). The same ALL mentioned in verses 1-2 ALL MEN (humans).

The horrible and blasphemous idea of Arminians is that the wondrous and perfect Atonement of Christ has made sure and certain the salvation of none, that it has only made possible the salvation of all who hear the Gospel. When this “possibility” is carefully examined it is found to be an impossibility! The supposed “possibility” is that fallen man, while dead in trespasses and sins, must fulfill a certain condition, must of himself perform a certain act which God is said to require of him, before the sacrifice of Christ can be of any avail. That “condition” is faith; that “act” is that he must believe. Now to reduce the “great salvation” which Christ procured and secured to a bare possibility, as something which is available for everyone but sure for no one, is to say that Christ did no more for Peter and Paul than He did for Pilate and Judas. Everything is thus left to chance and uncertainty.

To make the efficacy of Christ’s Atonement depend upon an act of man’s will is highly dishonoring to our blessed Savior. To say that the success of the greatest of all God’s works is left contingent upon the creature’s pleasure is most insulting to the Almighty, impeaching as it does His wisdom, goodness and justice. To teach that salvation lies within the sinner’s own power to secure, is to flatly deny Christ when He said “with men this is impossible” ( Matthew 19:26). Alas, nearly all preachers today speak of faith in Christ as a comparatively easy matter, as though it were well within the range of the sinner’s own ability. But the Scriptures teach far otherwise. They teach that man by nature is spiritually bound with fetters, such as none hut God can break ( Galatians 5:1), that he is shut up in darkness ( Ephesians 4:18), and is in a prison house ( Isaiah 61:1). The salvation of no man is “possible” apart from the effectual operations of God’s invincible grace.

To affirm the “possibility” of an unregenerate sinner believing in Christ to the saving of his soul, is to deny that “men loved darkness rather than light” ( John 3:19), that “they that are in the flesh cannot please God” ( Romans 8:8), that the “carnal mind is enmity against God.” In short, it is to repudiate the fact that man is, by nature, a fallen creature, dead in trespasses and sins. Carnality cannot thirst after holiness. An evil tree cannot produce good fruit. A corpse cannot quicken itself. Man’s will, like all his other faculties, has been disabled by the fall. His only hope is the intervention of sovereign and omnipotent grace: that God will perform upon and within him a miracle of mercy: that Divine power will lift him out of the grave of sin and make him a new creature in Christ Jesus. Until he is born again he can no more love God, savingly believe in Christ, or walk in the Spirit, than he can create a world.

AW.Pink...the atonement

 

[Felipe Rios]

So God is no longer sovereign?

Yes He is. He is always sovereign. Just cause He gives us a choice doesn't mean is not Sovereign.

 

[Iconoclast]

When God draws people to Him, that's where he gives the ability to des

When it comes to salvation yes.

ibid
We have not said that faith is unnecessary, nor that God does not call on man to believe the Gospel. What we do say is that faith is God’s gift, that this giftwas purchased by Christ for all for whom He died, and that in due time this gift is imparted to them. As this will come before us again we shall say no more upon it now; instead, we proceed to call attention to some of the many infallible proofs which demonstrate the certain efficacy of Christ’s Satisfaction. 1. THE PURPOSE OF GOD All the designs of a Being possessed of infinite wisdom and almighty power must be fulfilled. It is impossible that they should be frustrated. In Ephesians 3:11 we read of “the eternal purpose which He purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord.” The context shows what that “eternal purpose” concerned. It was a “dispensation of the grace of God” (v. 2) toward poor sinners. It was that elect Jews and elect Gentiles should be “fellow heirs and of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ by the gospel” (v. 6). It was that these should be partakers of “the unsearchable riches of Christ” (v. 8). It was that by means of the Church the “manifold wisdom of God” should be exhibited (v. 10). This same “eternal purpose” of God is revealed in 1 Thessalonians 5:9, “For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ.”

Now the purpose of God is absolutely certain of fulfillment. He Himself emphatically declares, “My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure” ( Isaiah 46:10).

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

The horrible and blasphemous idea of Arminians is that the wondrous and perfect Atonement of Christ has made sure and certain the salvation of none, that it has only made possible the salvation of all who hear the Gospel. When this “possibility” is carefully examined it is found to be an impossibility! The supposed “possibility” is that fallen man, while dead in trespasses and sins, must fulfill a certain condition, must of himself perform a certain act which God is said to require of him, before the sacrifice of Christ can be of any avail. That “condition” is faith; that “act” is that he must believe. Now to reduce the “great salvation” which Christ procured and secured to a bare possibility, as something which is available for everyone but sure for no one, is to say that Christ did no more for Peter and Paul than He did for Pilate and Judas. Everything is thus left to chance and uncertainty.

To make the efficacy of Christ’s Atonement depend upon an act of man’s will is highly dishonoring to our blessed Savior. To say that the success of the greatest of all God’s works is left contingent upon the creature’s pleasure is most insulting to the Almighty, impeaching as it does His wisdom, goodness and justice. To teach that salvation lies within the sinner’s own power to secure, is to flatly deny Christ when He said “with men this is impossible” ( Matthew 19:26). Alas, nearly all preachers today speak of faith in Christ as a comparatively easy matter, as though it were well within the range of the sinner’s own ability. But the Scriptures teach far otherwise. They teach that man by nature is spiritually bound with fetters, such as none hut God can break ( Galatians 5:1), that he is shut up in darkness ( Ephesians 4:18), and is in a prison house ( Isaiah 61:1). The salvation of no man is “possible” apart from the effectual operations of God’s invincible grace.

To affirm the “possibility” of an unregenerate sinner believing in Christ to the saving of his soul, is to deny that “men loved darkness rather than light” ( John 3:19), that “they that are in the flesh cannot please God” ( Romans 8:8), that the “carnal mind is enmity against God.” In short, it is to repudiate the fact that man is, by nature, a fallen creature, dead in trespasses and sins. Carnality cannot thirst after holiness. An evil tree cannot produce good fruit. A corpse cannot quicken itself. Man’s will, like all his other faculties, has been disabled by the fall. His only hope is the intervention of sovereign and omnipotent grace: that God will perform upon and within him a miracle of mercy: that Divine power will lift him out of the grave of sin and make him a new creature in Christ Jesus. Until he is born again he can no more love God, savingly believe in Christ, or walk in the Spirit, than he can create a world.

AW.Pink...the atonement

A W Pink was a very much deceived Calvinist!

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

So God is no longer sovereign?

You guys never cease to amuse me! When you cannot answer what is shown from Scripture, like no one has responded to what I have shown from John chapter 5, you bring out your nonsense that we who oppose Calvinistic misinterpretation of the Scriptures, somehow undermine the Sovereignty of God! Give it a rest, we more in tune with Bible Truth than "Calvinists/Reformed", because we take God at His word, and not spin it"!

 

[Iconoclast]

ibid
It must be admitted that, in effecting salvation, God acts agreeably to a preconceived plan or designed arrangement. We say “must;” — for to deny this is to impute to the infinitely wise God conduct such as is found only among the most thoughtless and foolish among men, conduct such as is exemplified in no other department of His works, for in all of them we discover such order and regularity as clearly evince the existence of an original plan or design. Hence, to direct attention to the Everlasting Covenant is but to show that God is now working according to an eternal purpose. The Scriptures plainly represent the Divine persons as entering into a federal agreement for the salvation of men. In that covenant the Father is the representative of the Godhead, and the Son the representative of those who are to be redeemed. He is, on that account, called the “Surety” ( Hebrews 7:22) and “Mediator” ( Hebrews 8:6) of the covenant. Whatever He did as Surety or Mediator must, therefore, have been done in connection with the covenant.

The great Architect of the universe drew up His plans before ever a creature was brought into existence. Everything concerning Christ and His Church was firmly settled beyond possibility of alteration. All that concerns the being and well-being of His people is done according to God’s covenant-enactment. As Ephesians 1:11 declares, God “worketh all things after the counsel of His own will.” Yes, “He will ever be mindful of His covenant” ( <19B105> Psalm 111:5). There were no contingencies, no uncertainties, no peradventures. All the affairs of the elect were settled by the mutual consent of all the persons of Deity. The Father made choice of the elect ( Ephesians 1:4), the Son accepted that choice ( John 17:10), the Spirit recorded it in the Lamb’s book of life ( Revelation 13:8). The Father decreed salvation, the Son consented to purchase it, the Spirit pledged Himself to the communication of it.

Now as stated in an earlier chapter, a covenant is an agreement between two parties who are under mutual engagements. Something is to be done by one of the parties, in consequence of which the other party binds himself to do something in return. When a master, for example, enters into an agreement or covenant with a servant, he prescribes certain duties to be performed by the servant and promises to recompense him with suitable wages. By consenting to the compact, the servant becomes bound to perform the stipulated work, and the master is bound to bestow the reward when the term of labor is finished. Such an agreement, such a compact, was entered into between the Father and the Son before the foundation of the world. Clear proof of this is found in Isaiah 49:1-19; 2 Timothy 1:9. In Isaiah 53:10-12 we have recorded the promises which God made to the Mediator. In John 17:24 we hear Christ putting in His claim to the fulfillment of that promise.

The covenant is “ordered in all things and sure” ( 2 Samuel 23:5).

 

[Iconoclast]

A W Pink was a very much deceived Calvinist!

You wish you were deceived like AW.Pink, who sought to give all glory to God...you cannot touch much of anything he wrote,

 

[Iconoclast]

You guys never cease to amuse me! When you cannot answer what is shown from Scripture, like no one has responded to what I have shown from John chapter 5, you bring out your nonsense that we who oppose Calvinistic misinterpretation of the Scriptures, somehow undermine the Sovereignty of God! Give it a rest, we more in tune with Bible Truth than "Calvinists/Reformed", because we take God at His word, and not spin it"!

what post did you address jn5?

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

ibid
It must be admitted that, in effecting salvation, God acts agreeably to a preconceived plan or designed arrangement. We say “must;” — for to deny this is to impute to the infinitely wise God conduct such as is found only among the most thoughtless and foolish among men, conduct such as is exemplified in no other department of His works, for in all of them we discover such order and regularity as clearly evince the existence of an original plan or design. Hence, to direct attention to the Everlasting Covenant is but to show that God is now working according to an eternal purpose. The Scriptures plainly represent the Divine persons as entering into a federal agreement for the salvation of men. In that covenant the Father is the representative of the Godhead, and the Son the representative of those who are to be redeemed. He is, on that account, called the “Surety” ( Hebrews 7:22) and “Mediator” ( Hebrews 8:6) of the covenant. Whatever He did as Surety or Mediator must, therefore, have been done in connection with the covenant.

The great Architect of the universe drew up His plans before ever a creature was brought into existence. Everything concerning Christ and His Church was firmly settled beyond possibility of alteration. All that concerns the being and well-being of His people is done according to God’s covenant-enactment. As Ephesians 1:11 declares, God “worketh all things after the counsel of His own will.” Yes, “He will ever be mindful of His covenant” ( <19B105> Psalm 111:5). There were no contingencies, no uncertainties, no peradventures. All the affairs of the elect were settled by the mutual consent of all the persons of Deity. The Father made choice of the elect ( Ephesians 1:4), the Son accepted that choice ( John 17:10), the Spirit recorded it in the Lamb’s book of life ( Revelation 13:8). The Father decreed salvation, the Son consented to purchase it, the Spirit pledged Himself to the communication of it.

Now as stated in an earlier chapter, a covenant is an agreement between two parties who are under mutual engagements. Something is to be done by one of the parties, in consequence of which the other party binds himself to do something in return. When a master, for example, enters into an agreement or covenant with a servant, he prescribes certain duties to be performed by the servant and promises to recompense him with suitable wages. By consenting to the compact, the servant becomes bound to perform the stipulated work, and the master is bound to bestow the reward when the term of labor is finished. Such an agreement, such a compact, was entered into between the Father and the Son before the foundation of the world. Clear proof of this is found in Isaiah 49:1-19; 2 Timothy 1:9. In Isaiah 53:10-12 we have recorded the promises which God made to the Mediator. In John 17:24 we hear Christ putting in His claim to the fulfillment of that promise.

The covenant is “ordered in all things and sure” ( 2 Samuel 23:5).

 

[Saved-By-Grace]

what post did you address jn5?

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