Originally posted by music4Him:
Here is my serious question...can anyone answer it?
How many feel that this topic of gifts of the Spirit whether you belive they have or have not ceased possibly depends on the interpretation of 1Cor.13:8-10 & verse 12?
Music4Him
It not only depends on 1or.13:8-13, but also on the totality of Scripture that supports the same teaching, i.e,, tongues have ceased.
1. 1 Corinthians 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
--Out of all the gifts mentioned in all three of these chapters (12,13,14), love is the only one that will endure forever. All other gifts will cease at some point in time. That includes faith and hope (mentioned in 13:13). They will cease at the coming of Christ, for then we will see him as he is, and will have no more need of either hope or faith. We walk by faith and not by sight. Christ is our hope. When he comes we no longer need faith or hope. Thus at his coming these two, faith and hope, will cease--but love will continue forever. It will be the only gift to continue forever. Therefore it is called the greatest of all the gifts.
In verse 8 three other gifts are mentioned, but it is evident that they are only temporary in nature. They will pass away, cease, vanish. These are not as great as love, and will not last as long as faith and hope. They are temporary. They will cease before faith and hope. This is a comparison that Paul is making.
Love will endure forever.
Faith and hope will last until the Coming of Christ.
But the Spiritual gifts ended with the Apostolic Age, and the completion of the Bible.
The Corinthians knew in part--they had part of the entire Word of God--the Old Testament.
Therefore they prophesied in part. God gave them the gift of prophecy (as well as that of tongues and revelatory knowledge) to make up for the knowledge of the New Testament that they did not have yet. For the New Testament was not yet complete. Therefore: "We know in part, and we prophesy in part."
"But when that which is perfect (the completed Word of God) is come, then that which is in part (the temporary sign gifts of tongues, prophecy, and revelatory knowledge) shall be done away."
That is what happened. By the time the Bible was completed with the writing of the Book of Revelation these gifts had ceased. They had passed out of existence, and history seems to verify this.
However our case does not rest on this one passage alone. That is why I have been challenging you on a couple of other points (and not backing down), for which you have no answer.
2. Tongues are a sign for the unbelieving Jew (the unbelieving nation of Israel). 1Cor.14:21,22
In the above reference Paul quotes a prophecy from Isaiah 28:11,12. The prophecy is fulfilled before their very eyes. It is that God would give the nation of Israel ("this people") a sign--men of other nations would speak to them with other tongues, and still they would not hear the Lord. Though God would speak His message to them in foreign languages, they still would not listen. That was the sign. The consequence--judgement. Jerusalem was razed to the ground--destroyed by Titus in 70 A.D., and the nation of Israel dispersed. Tongues fulfilled its purpose in this way also, and thus ceased by the end of the first century.
3. In contrast to today, Biblical tongues were actual foreign languages--not the gibberish or glossalalia that is heard today. What is heard today among Pentecostal and Charismatic circles is practiced in the occult, other world religions like Hindus, other cults like Mormons, and under every brand of "Christianity" such as Catholicism, whether they be true believers or not. How then can it be of God?
4. In contrast to Biblical times, as the Bible teaches in 1Cor.14:34,35, it was, and still is forbidden for women to speak in tongues in the church at all. Let the women keep silence in the churches. That is a straight forward command. It is forbidden for them to speak. He emphasizes the command by repeating it. He repeats it a third time in different words: If they will learn anything let them ask their husbands at home. And yet, still once more--a fourth time, Paul reiterates himself--It is a shame for women to speak in church.
FOUR times in two verses he commands the women to keep quiet or to shut up! One would think that understanding of these verses would come rather easily.
5. Tongues, i.e., foreign languages, were only to be spoken in a church, with an interpreter, and with a maximum number of 3 people only.
6. The gift of tongues was not given to every person, and nowhere in Scripture is any person ever commanded to seek for the gift of tongues.
7. In 1Cor.12:28, where all the spiritual gifts are listed in order of importance, tongues is listed at the bottom of the list as least important. It was the least of all the gifts--the one that mattered least.
8. When you read through the 12th chapter of 1Corinthians you see how insignificant tongues really is. Paul gives the illustration of the human body to illustrate the church--the local church at Corinth. That is who he was addressing. Each member in that church had a particular function, a duty, and some had certain special gifts. Now think how many different parts your body has. One of my college courses was human anatomy and physiology, so it may be easier for me to think of this than you. Believe me, we have a lot of "parts" to our bodies. Paul refers to those parst as members. We are many members that make up one body. But not every member can be the hand, or the head, or the eye. In other words Paul was saying not everyone has the same gift. We all have different gifts and abilities. Here is how he ends the chapter:
1 Corinthians 12:29-30 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
The obvious answer to the above questions is NO. It was not God's will for all to speak in tongues, or for all to have all of the gifts. Only a few of the individuals were blessed with the gift of tongues--perhaps just a very few. Others were jealous and envious of those few. That's where the problems relative to the gift of tongues started, and that is why Paul spent so much time correcting the abuse of tongues.
The abuse of the gift goes on today.
The actual gift of tongues ceased almost 2,000 years ago.
DHK
(j/k)
