He is the propitiation for our sins:

[Titus Tarnum]

" And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works." ( Revelation 20:14 ).

Count on it happening.

And it is important to be respectful! Luckily Utilyan's salvation isn't based off of his works though[emoji3]


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[MB]

You sure he didn’t say “cross your fingers and hope God chose you from the foundation to be zapped and saved so you can believe.”?

It doesn't work that way. Calvinist claim election for them selves. This idea like the rest of there doctrines. Aren't in scripture
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[Yeshua1]

It doesn't work that way. Calvinist claim election for them selves. This idea like the rest of there doctrines. Aren't in scripture
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We can claim to be one of the elect after having been saved by the grace of God!

 

[MB]

The means and the propitiation are two separate things and you seem oblivious to this truth.
The propitiation isn't just a means, it is effectual. You even state that when you limit the propitiation to those who believe. Yet, you contradict yourself by saying the propitiation is for everyone, but it's not for everyone. Go read what you actually wrote instead of falling on your calvinism crutch as an attempt to ignore your contradiction.

Where does scripture say the propitiation is only for a certain group?
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[MB]

We can claim to be one of the elect after having been saved by the grace of God!

You need to show proof of this. No Gentiles are elect.
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[MB]

You didn't answer my question

Christ died for the sins of the whole world.
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[MB]

We can claim to be one of the elect after having been saved by the grace of God!

It still would not be true. False doctrine is always false
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[Yeshua1]

It still would not be true. False doctrine is always false
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Paul stated to us in Romans that all saved are the elect of God!

 

[MB]

Paul stated to us in Romans that all saved are the elect of God!

Show me I don't believe you
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[Yeshua1]

Show me I don't believe you
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The elect of God will be all those now "IN Christ"

 

[Scott Downey]

At one point in your life the wrath of God abode on you, you became elect when Christ paid the blood price for your sin and you were adopted into the second Adam, you weren't born already adopted...


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That is right, none are born saved... The elect must believe, also the elect must be saved.
Acts 4:12 Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”

It says we must be saved, not we can be saved, there is a difference. God's command is that of all He has given to Christ, that none be lost.
And we obtained our calling before time began, from the beginning of time, our names were written in His book of life.
So yes, we must be saved.

And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.

But we were not the others, we have this good hope by GRACE

2 Timothy 1:9
who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,

2 Thessalonians 2:12-14
New King James Version

12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

13 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth,

14 to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle.

16 Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself, and our God and Father, who has loved us and given us everlasting consolation and good hope by grace, 17 comfort your hearts and establish you in every good word and work.

 

[Scott Downey]

We can claim to be one of the elect after having been saved by the grace of God!

Exactly, it is the only way you can know your elect.
God preserves the lives of His saints. That includes those He foreknew as His own.
Since all things work to their good, but the elect must believe in the gospel, it is also the reason for why Paul labored in preaching and was willing to suffer for the sake of Christ.
.
2 Timothy 2:10
Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

The elect must be saved. The elect must obtain salvation, and they will. With God when he speaks something into existence, it must occur as He has said, it is also why prophecies come from God are always true. Before I was saved, I had God's judgement of wrath on me for my sins, but God had another plan for my life. He preserved my life until in the fulness of my time, He revealed Christ in me.

Galatians 1:14-16
New King James Version

14 And I advanced in Judaism beyond many of my contemporaries in my own nation, being more exceedingly zealous for the traditions of my fathers.

15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother’s womb and called me through His grace, 16 to reveal His Son in me, that I might preach Him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately confer with flesh and blood,

 

[MB]

The elect of God will be all those now "IN Christ"

You still haven't shown in scripture where is says this.
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[Yeshua1]

You still haven't shown in scripture where is says this.
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Romans 11:7

 

[Scott Downey]

I think some people here think the Wrath of God is absolute for all time, as if it can not be propitiated, as if set in stone forever, it is however in time, until the final consummation of the world and we get new heavens and a new earth in which dwells righteousness, the wrath of God is according to His purposes.

Jesus saves us from the wrath of God to come.

John 3:36
He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

At one point in my life I did not believe, the scripture then says the wrath of God abided on me. Do you understand this?
Was anyone naturally born as a believer in the Son? Born saved? Not really.

 

[Van]

I quote you and you call it disinformation. I cannot make it up.
I have the integrity to quote you and let the reader decide.

Sadly Calvinism requires this sort of defense, after editing my post to indicate the opposite of what I said. Ask yourselves why does Calvinism depend on disinformation and false charges

Jesus being the propitiation for the whole world does not mean Jesus propitiated the whole world.
Only those placed into Christ receive the reconciliation provided by Christ's sacrificial death.

Those placed into Christ have the wrath earned by their sins turned away by the propitiatory shelter of Christ.
Those not placed into Christ have the wrath earned by their sins pending to be received in Hades and Gehenna.

It is really simple folks...

 

[Van]

The two views:
1) The bogus view is God chose all the individuals to be saved before creation. Never mind 1 Peter 2:9-10 precludes being chosen before living as someone not chosen.
2) Christ died for all humankind, those to be saved and those never to be saved. Therefore, becoming the propitiation or means of salvation for the whole world, all of humankind, does not propitiate all people, but it does provide the means of salvation for everyone who believes. This view is consistent with 1 Peter 2:9-10.

 

[Van]

Propitiation refers to Christ being the means of salvation from the pending wrath of God:

Romans 3:25 whom God displayed publicly as the means of salvation by His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in God's merciful restraint He let the sins previously committed go unpunished;

Hebrews 2:17
Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brothers so that He might become a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to provide salvation for the sins of the people.

1John 4:10
In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the means of salvation for our sins.

 

[Titus Tarnum]

Faith as a fruit of the Spirit to serve God and endure trials with thankfulness and joy is one thing, faith to believe the gospel is another.
There is faith as a gift of the Spirit after a man has already been saved:
1Co_12:9 To another faith by the same Spirit;
Evidently then, that kind of faith is not saving faith.

Joy is also a fruit of the Spirit, and lost people can have joy:
Pro_15:21 Folly is joy to him that is destitute of wisdom: but a man of understanding walketh uprightly.

Two kinds of joys, two kinds of faith. (Heb.4:12)

We start with inherent human faith and when God through His Word opens your understanding with supernatural evidence of "invisible things" you believe, you won't make the jump without the evidence He provides.

Hebrews 11:1
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Did you know that God prepares your mind like good ground for Paul to plant the Word in and then God provides the increase in your SAVING faith?

1 Corinthians 3:6
I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the increase.

Mark 4:20
But these are the ones sown on good ground, those who hear the word, accept it, and bear fruit: some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some a hundred.”

Did you know that faith is half of the salvation equation so if you believe we are saved through our inherent faith you are literally providing half of the equation?

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,

Do you think God provides grace, but faith isn't a gift of God?


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[Van]

We start with inherent human faith

Please cite a reference to "inherent human faith" in scripture and provide a definition for "inherent human faith."

If you start with ambiguity, you will end in speculation.