Hell Is Not the Lake of Fire

[37818]

To make full proof of your testimony, you should have included the verse.

How about Mark 9:47-48 and Matthew 10:28.

 

[Yeshua1]

dude, you like "believer", and me, I like "born-again", as I believe that it says more! Now tell us what you have to say of verses like Matthew 5:22, where Jesus refers to "brothers" and "gehenna"?

 

[Yeshua1]

Not all according Jesus, Matthew 7:21-23.

They were not true believers in Jesus though!

 

[SavedByGrace]

?

 

[SavedByGrace]

How about Mark 9:47-48 and Matthew 10:28.

look at #23

 

[Van]

Matthew 10:28

"Don't be afraid of those who kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul. Rather, fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna"

In verse 1 we read, "He called to Himself His Twelve Disciples". In verse 5, "Jesus sent these Twelve out, and charged them, saying". In verse 16, "Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves". And verse 20, "For it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you". Verse 22, "You will be hated by all men for My Name's sake". None of this can have been spoken to those who are not "believers".

LOL, Matthew 5:23 tells us the "you" are unsaved Jews, presenting offerings at the alter.

 

[Van]

Probably is noted here for which again has to be defined by how it is used in the verse & context of the message with His help

Thus we are in agreement, your view is probably invalid. Gehenna never refers to Hades and Hades never refers to Gehenna. The Lake of Fire never refers to Hades, and Hades never refers to the Lake of Fire. But the Lake of Fire and the Gehenna of Fire apparently refer to the same place. Nothing is said to happen at one of them that is also not said to happen at the other.

 

[SavedByGrace]

LOL, Matthew 5:23 tells us the "you" are unsaved Jews, presenting offerings at the alter.

really? then see who Jesus address all these words to,

"And seeing the multitudes, He went up on a mountain, and when He was seated His disciples came to Him. Then He opened His mouth and taught them, saying..." verses 1 and 2

more false teaching from you!

 

[SavedByGrace]

But the Lake of Fire and the Gehenna of Fire apparently refer to the same place

show this from the Bible!

 

[Van]

really? then see who Jesus address all these words to,

"And seeing the multitudes, He went up on a mountain, and when He was seated His disciples came to Him. Then He opened His mouth and taught them, saying..." verses 1 and 2

more false teaching from you!

Folks, read Matthew 5:23 to see who is being addressed in Matthew 5:22, unsaved Jews presenting sacrifices at the alter.

 

[Van]

show this from the Bible!

I have. Show where sinners are thrown into the Gehenna of Fire and Hades? Not in scripture.
Show where sinners are thrown into the Gehenna of Fire (Matthew 5:29)
Show where sinners are thrown into the Lake of Fire. (Revelation 20:15)

 

[SavedByGrace]

Folks, read Matthew 5:23 to see who is being addressed in Matthew 5:22, unsaved Jews presenting sacrifices at the alter.

where does it say that this is addressed to any unsaved Jews? This is YOUR version of it! verse 16, "Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven" these are the Disciples! The WHOLE chapter is addressed to them!

 

[Van]

where does it say that this is addressed to any unsaved Jews? This is YOUR version of it! verse 16, "Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven" these are the Disciples! The WHOLE chapter is addressed to them!

Note the change from the context of the verse (5:22-23) to an unrelated verse.
Pay no attention to this agenda driven claim. Is Matthew 5:20 addressing those in the kingdom or those not in the kingdom.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Note the change from the context of the verse (5:22-23) to an unrelated verse.
Pay no attention to this agenda driven claim. Is Matthew 5:20 addressing those in the kingdom or those not in the kingdom.

verse 20 is a warning to the Disciples, as is the entire Sermon on the Mount!

 

[Van]

verse 20 is a warning to the Disciples, as is the entire Sermon on the Mount!

No matter how many verses I cite, they will be ignored to support false doctrine. Jesus promised to not cast out anyone given to Him, John 6:37. Matthew 5:22 is not addressing those given to Christ, but to Jews that have not entered the Kingdom of Christ.

 

[Hark]

How about Mark 9:47-48 and Matthew 10:28.

Thank you. In light of scripture I would say that Gehenna there is applied to the lake of fire of those who go through the great tribulation in that hour of trial that shall try all upon the earth. It is a warning to new believers after the rapture during the great tribulation.

 

[Hark]

2 Peter 3:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; KJV

Look it up in your modern bible version because it is there.

2 Peter 3:4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment; NIV

2 Peter 3:4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to pits of darkness, reserved for judgment; NASB

2 Peter 3:4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment; ESV

So this place called hell is a holding area before the final judgment of being cast into the lake of fire therefore hell is not the lake of fire

The charge that KJV mistranslated it as hell when it should be sheol or Hades as if hell is the lake of fire is false. Not one anti-KJV considered why there are 2 names for that place; why not just stick with Hades? Why use sheol as another reference for Hades? If the scripture allows for that, then hell can be allowed for it too.

As it is, hell, aka hades, aka sheol & death will be cast into the lake of fire so this charge against the KJV needs to be dropped.

Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. KJV

@Mickey Finn & @George Antonios The correct reference is 2 Peter 2:4 FYI

 

[Hark]

Thus we are in agreement, your view is probably invalid. Gehenna never refers to Hades and Hades never refers to Gehenna. The Lake of Fire never refers to Hades, and Hades never refers to the Lake of Fire. But the Lake of Fire and the Gehenna of Fire apparently refer to the same place. Nothing is said to happen at one of them that is also not said to happen at the other.

Now the discussion has gone to sarcasm rather than godly edifying in complete denial how any Greek word has to be defined by how it is used in the verse in the context of the message give, because scripture cannot go against scripture.

Your references cannot be applied to believers before the great tribulation for that would be saying believers can lose their salvation. Is that what you are advocating when to be so anti-KJVer? Do not lose your focus on serving Him in keeping the faith.

The hour of temptation that shall try all upon the earth is given to new believers after the rapture since there will be a war waging on the saints.

It cannot be before the rapture because those who seek to save their lives by denying Him, they will be denied by Him at the rapture BUT even if they do not believe in Him anymore, He still abides per 2 Timothy 2:12-13 for why even former believers now are called to depart from iniquity & not just believers living in unrepentant sins per 2 Timothy 2:18-21.

That is how everything changes for sinners passed the rapture. Jesus keeps the souls of His unrepentant saints & former believers left behind that were disqualified to attend the Marriage Supper in Heaven.

Click on those scriptural references in blue to read them because those are the proofs for what He has enabled me to share.

Unless you prefer to be a disciple of the antiKJV campaign, but you should know that it is not the same as keeping the faith which is the good fight..

 

[Van]

Thus we are in agreement, your view is probably invalid. Gehenna never refers to Hades and Hades never refers to Gehenna. The Lake of Fire never refers to Hades, and Hades never refers to the Lake of Fire. But the Lake of Fire and the Gehenna of Fire apparently refer to the same place. Stuff that is said to happen at one of them that is also said to happen at the other, i.e. being tossed into them.

No matter how many verses I cite, they will be ignored to support false doctrine. Jesus promised to not cast out anyone given to Him, John 6:37. Matthew 5:22 is not addressing those given to Christ, but to Jews that have not entered the Kingdom of Christ.

1) Where do lost people go when they physically die? Hades.
2) Where do the lost people in Hades go? Great White Judgement
3) Where do the lost people go after the Great White Judgement? Lake of Fire.
4) Is the Lake of Fire and the Gehenna of Fire the same place? Probably

The word "Hell" should be removed from scripture as it creates confusion.

 

[Hark]

Thus we are in agreement, your view is probably invalid. Gehenna never refers to Hades and Hades never refers to Gehenna. The Lake of Fire never refers to Hades, and Hades never refers to the Lake of Fire. But the Lake of Fire and the Gehenna of Fire apparently refer to the same place. Stuff that is said to happen at one of them that is also said to happen at the other, i.e. being tossed into them.

Then examines the contentions you are issuing as if pneuma always refers to the Holy Spirit in scripture when the word does not & so neither does the Greek words for hell as well as for the lake of fire.

No matter how many verses I cite, they will be ignored to support false doctrine.

Then discern your contentions with Him.

Jesus promised to not cast out anyone given to Him, John 6:37.

But He will cast out saved believers not found abiding in Him & His words in being His disciples; note verse 6 John 15:1-8 It is not a loss of salvation but a loss of their first inheritance for why the prodigal son had given up his inheritance for wild living & although he can never get it back, he is still son.

Look at how God will judge His House first per 1 Peter 4:17-19 in that Jesus will keep the souls of His saints that be left behind while Paul expounds on that judgment day at the pre great tribulation rapture event in 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 for how the body will be destroyed; hence a physical death, but the spirit is saved in 1 Corinthians 3:15-17. Confirmation of that event of God judging the church is found in the warning in Revelation 2:18-25 in how they will be cast into the bed of the great tribulation.

Jesus warns His disciples again that they will be cut off to have their "portions" with unbelievers when He sends that fire on the earth in Luke 12:40-49.

That same fire Peter is talking about in reference to the global flood in the past but yet in the near prophetic future in 2 Peter 3:3-15 for why he warns believers to be ready to escape as in to be saved from what is coming on the earth.

He warns believers again in Luke 17:26-37 to be ready or else.

He even warns believers to take heed not to be ensnared by the cares of this life & to pray to escape what is coming on the earth & to stand before the Son of Man in Luke 21:33-36 & again in Luke 14:15-24 for how those invited & had seats at the King's Supper table would make excuses not to come for the cares of their lives while Luke 14:25-35 has Jesus expounding on that same warning towards the multitude about the cost of discipleship which is to leave their lives & loved ones behind.

So that is how you apply John 6:37 in that no one will lose their salvation, but not every saved believer will be ready as those not found abiding in Him as His disciples or loving this life more that they do not want to leave, will be cast out because they are giving up their inheritance for wild living as the prodigal son is, but although he can never be of the firstfruits of the resurrection, he is still son to be resurrected in their last days at the end of the great tribulation to serve the king of kings on earth from all over the world wherever they decide to live at in representing Him for the generations following in His reign.

You have to discern the truth with Him because all those scriptural references speaks of a casting out of saved believers but not to the lake of fire, but to the fire coming on the earth. and yet they are still saved as the prodigal son is still son..

]Matthew 5:22 is not addressing those given to Christ, but to Jews that have not entered the Kingdom of Christ.

Hold on there; We need His discernment there as well. If you read Matthew 5:13-26 He is addressing future saved believers in Matthew 5:13-16. Then He is talking about His salvation plan in Matthew 5:17-18. Then He is talking about 2 kinds of inheritance in the Kingdom of Heaven in Matthew 5:19 & the salvation judgment on whom are the great from the least in how they are even in the kingdom of Heaven ( hint His righteousness apart from the law ) Matthew 5:20.

Then we come across in context of your reference of Matthew 5:22 to be read in context in Matthew 5:21-26 as the punishment of Matthew 5:22 cannot be the lake of fire because there is no coming out of the lake of fire in Matthew 5:26.

1) Where do lost people go when they physically die? Hades.
2) Where do the lost people in Hades go? Great White Judgement
3) Where do the lost people go after the Great White Judgement? Lake of Fire.
4) Is the Lake of Fire and the Gehenna of Fire the same place? Probably

The word "Hell" should be removed from scripture as it creates confusion.

So would spirit, for why wisdom has to come from the Lord in discerning & understanding His words since hell is a holding place for angels in chains awaiting judgment to be cast into the lake of fire for why hell is not the lake of fire. 2 Peter 2:4

2 Peter 2:For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; KJV

Thank you for sharing your contentions. I just hope in the Lord that He will lead you to align all of scriptures in understanding the truths in His words in applying His words rightly by Him.