How Free Will Destroys Faith in Christ;

[Dave G]

Except for 1 Cor 2:14, naturally.

Written to the believer as well.

 

[utilyan]

The verse is in context with the verses before it.

Because there's more to Scripture than what the verse immediately says.

As @Revmitchell is fond of saying, there's context to be considered.

The context of the "any man" here is not "all men"...
It is the "any man" in the church being addressed:

" And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: 18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and [that] the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches." ( Revelation 3:14-22 ).

Who is being spoken to here?
Hint:

Not unbelievers.
In addition, in light of Romans 3:10-18, who is going to open the door in and of themselves?

Those that are born of God.

OH?

"if any man hear my voice, and open the door,"

So what if that "BELIEVER" doesn't hear his voice?

He is not saying "any man WILL hear my voice and open the door."

 

[MB]

Is it okay to interpret what those English words are saying or must we blindly take an English translation at face value?

Those English words have already been translated from the Greek to English. They are simple and easy to understand. Calvinist have no right to reinterpret it. The only reason you interpret them is because you don't like what they say already with proper translation You translat them to a completely different meaning and you know this is true.
MB

 

[Dave G]

God wants people who serve Him of their own free will, not robots, which He coulda easily created.

I serve Him of my own free will, @robycop3 .

A will that was changed because He made me born again.

 

[MB]

Because God is love and salvation is about relationships in the family of God. Adoption, children are words that describe the relationship. People who God adopts as His children, He shows to them His kindness, God does not treat them like a machine, the Holy Spirit teaches those He brings to Christ.
God is also glorious and a glorious light show is what He likes.

Actually God loves truth, His truth and Calvinist don't have any because they have to reinterpret scripture to there liking. They can't stand it with out reinterpreting it in to a false gospel.
MB

 

[utilyan]

Because God is love and salvation is about relationships in the family of God. Adoption, children are words that describe the relationship. People who God adopts as His children, He shows to them His kindness, God does not treat them like a machine, the Holy Spirit teaches those He brings to Christ.
God is also glorious and a glorious light show is what He likes.

He slaughters the rest in front of their face with unconditional hatred, to remind them they are just as worthless and only saved on the whim of unconditional election.

"God does not treat them like a machine"
Exactly like a robot and puppet. Shove his hand up their back and works them like a puppet. and then blames folks he made sure would fail.

 

[Dave G]

OH?

"if any man hear my voice, and open the door,"

So what if that "BELIEVER" doesn't hear his voice?

He is not saying "any man WILL hear my voice and open the door."

Let's try that again, @utilyan:

" Why do ye not understand my speech? [even] because ye cannot hear my word.
44 Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
45 And because I tell [you] the truth, ye believe me not.
46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
47 He that is of God heareth God’s words: ye therefore hear [them] not, because ye are not of God." ( John 8:43-48 ).

What is this passage saying?
Who hears God's words?

Don't be shy.
You seem real quick to accuse God of being a "puppet master" and don't appear to have any trouble insulting Him...
Therefore, based on your authority to represent the Lord accurately, you shouldn't have any trouble telling the reader what this says.


Line by line, word for word.

 

[Scott Downey]

He slaughters the rest in front of their face with unconditional hatred, to remind them they are just as worthless and only saved on the whim of unconditional election.

"God does not treat them like a machine"
Exactly like a robot and puppet. Shove his hand up their back and works them like a puppet. and then blames folks he made sure would fail.

Not everyone is a child of God, many are of Satan. What did Jesus teach in the parable of the wheat and tares?
The Parable of the Tares Explained
36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away and went into the house. And His disciples came to Him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the tares of the field.”
37 He answered and said to them: “He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. 39 The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. 40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. 41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!

 

[Particular]

Those English words have already been translated from the Greek to English. They are simple and easy to understand. Calvinist have no right to reinterpret it. The only reason you interpret them is because you don't like what they say already with proper translation You translat them to a completely different meaning and you know this is true.
MB

Certainly I interpret different than you. I actually read the entire letter and interpret based upon the context of the letter. This is in contrast to you who ignores everything in the passage in order to squeeze orange juice out of an apple.

 

[Dave G]

@utilyan
Whenever you're ready sir.

 

[utilyan]

Let's try that again, @utilyan:

" Why do ye not understand my speech? [even] because ye cannot hear my word.
44 Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
45 And because I tell [you] the truth, ye believe me not.
46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
47 He that is of God heareth God’s words: ye therefore hear [them] not, because ye are not of God." ( John 8:43-48 ).

What is this passage saying?

Its saying you think the character of God is the Devil because you don't understand Jesus, or that God is Love.

 

[Dave G]

Its saying you think the character of God is the Devil because you don't understand Jesus, or that God is Love.

God is love...
But that isn't what John 8:43-47 says.
Try it again please.

Line by line, word for word.

 

[Dave G]

@robycop3

" Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me." ( Revelation 3:20 ).
Again, who hears His voice?

" My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:" ( John 10:27 ).

Therefore, given that His sheep are the ones who hear His voice, who is going to open the door and let Him in?

 

[Walpole]

Who is that knocking at the door?

Not the Lord Jesus.
That is a picture of what many want Him to be like, Walpole.

The Bible paints a very different picture, sir.
When He comes back, no one will want to see Him except His sheep.
He will come and take vengeance in flaming fire:

" In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:" ( 2 Thessalonians 1:8 ).

It will not be a pretty sight.

Yes, it most certainly is the Lord Jesus knocking at the door. Thankfully He is patient with some of us, who often keep Him waiting before we finally open the door and invite Him in to sup.

Rev 3:20 ---> "Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me."

 

[Dave G]

Jesus knocks at the door. Thankfully He is patient with us and waits for us to finally answer His knock and invite Him in to sup.

Rev 3:20 ---> "Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me."

Answered above, post # 153.

 

[utilyan]

Not everyone is a child of God, many are of Satan. What did Jesus teach in the parable of the wheat and tares?
The Parable of the Tares Explained
36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away and went into the house. And His disciples came to Him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the tares of the field.”
37 He answered and said to them: “He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. 39 The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. 40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. 41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!

1 John 2

9The one who says he is in the Light and yet hates his brother is in the darkness until now. 10The one who loves his brother abides in the Light and there is no cause for stumbling in him. 11But the one who hates his brother is in the darkness and walks in the darkness, and does not know where he is going because the darkness has blinded his eyes.

Child of Satan Accuses others are Child of Satan on no grounds. He can't even claim another is a child of God.

1 john 3

10By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.


Calvinist Jesus can lay out his entire theology in one line:

If God likes you then you will be saved and if God hates you then you will be damned.

And he is absolutely done, nothing more need be said, nor any bickering or debate.

 

[Walpole]

Answered above, post # 153.

Answered with Revelation 3:20 ---> "Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me."


Fill in the missing word:

" My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they _____ me:" ( John 10:27 )

a. get compelled to
b. follow

 

[Dave G]

Answered with Revelation 3:20 ---> "Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me."

See my immediately above.
Only Christ's sheep hear His voice.

He that is "of God" hears His words ( John 8:47 ).

 

[Walpole]

See my immediately above.
Only Christ's sheep hear His voice.

Hearing is something man does.


Fill in the missing word:

"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they _____ me" ( John 10:27 )

a. get compelled to
b. follow

 

[Dave G]

Fill in the missing word:

" My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they _____me:" ( John 10:27 )

a. get compelled to
b. follow

Follow.
We do that, as a natural consequence of being His sheep...God's children, and not the Devil's.

Please see my post # 147.
Who hears His words?