How often do people really use guns in self-defense

[atpollard]

I agree, a gun is a tool. As I have said, it is a tool for one purpose...to kill a living being created by God.

That is a false statement.

Part of my job involved flagging wetlands. More than once per month, that task resulted in an encounter with an alligator or a snake (including the water moccasin). I considered the purchase of a handgun for dealing with such encounters [specifically a gun chambered in .45 LC that could also fire a .410 shotgun shell giving me “birdshot” to deal with snakes and a lethal round for an aggressive ‘gator during mating season.]

People that live on farms typically have a rifle to deal with animals that eat chickens.

Many pistols are optimized for killing at close range. Would that not be similar to the advice given by Jesus for those Christians likely to encounter danger: “He said to them, ‘But now let the one who has a moneybag take it, and likewise a knapsack. And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one.’” [Luke 22:36 ESV]

 

[AustinC]

That is a false statement.

Part of my job involved flagging wetlands. More than once per month, that task resulted in an encounter with an alligator or a snake (including the water moccasin). I considered the purchase of a handgun for dealing with such encounters [specifically a gun chambered in .45 LC that could also fire a .410 shotgun shell giving me “birdshot” to deal with snakes and a lethal round for an aggressive ‘gator during mating season.]

People that live on farms typically have a rifle to deal with animals that eat chickens.

Many pistols are optimized for killing at close range. Would that not be similar to the advice given by Jesus for those Christians likely to encounter danger: “He said to them, ‘But now let the one who has a moneybag take it, and likewise a knapsack. And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one.’” [Luke 22:36 ESV]

Note that I have consistently stated that having a shotgun to kill game for eating is a positive use for a gun. It's only function is to kill. I don't see your scenario denying this fact.

As to your verse, I assume you are attempting to extrapolate a principle of protection and then apply it to guns and not swords.
Note that when Peter unsheathed that sword, Jesus rebuked him for using it. Second, Peter never advocates defending ourselves from evil people in his letters. Neither does Paul or John. Instead we are to love our enemies and in so doing it will result in either their repentance or their ultimate judgment. Peter tells us not to be surprised at the fiery trials that will come. Not once does he advocate for us to respond with lethal force.

I listened to a sermon the other day. The preacher noted that when we as Christians are mistreated, beaten and killed, it will stir up our hearts to want justice. This is a proper emotion. Peter tells us that God will justly judge those who acted wickedly against us.

This love of guns seems to be very much a North American love affair. This attitude of escalation in an arms race to have more guns, better guns, and bigger guns "for protection" is primarily an exhibition of idolatry. I know that makes people bristle, but it is obvious when you step away and see what is being said about how people will react if their guns were to be removed.

 

[Revmitchell]

Jesus rebuked Peter for using his sword because Jesus did not want to be defended as He intended to be taken at that time. It was not about never using a sword. Your very poor extrapolation fails the test of context.

 

[Salty]

This is certainly your opinion.

Will you give up your guns if God demands you do so?

Will you carry a firearm if God demands you do so?

 

[AustinC]

Will you carry a firearm if God demands you do so?

If God explicitly required me to have a firearm at my side, I would carry one. If the government of a country required me to kill other humans in war, I would be a conscientious objector since God does not want me to kill.

Have you heard the story of the Hutterite Brethren who were beaten and killed by the US Government for refusing to fight in WW1? Their willingness to die for their faith in Christ Jesus is the reason the US has a conscientious objector law.

I noticed you refused to answer my question.
If God requires you to give up your guns, will you do so?

 

[AustinC]

Jesus rebuked Peter for using his sword because Jesus did not want to be defended as He intended to be taken at that time. It was not about never using a sword. Your very poor extrapolation fails the test of context.

Did Peter ever pick up the sword again? What do we see in history?
Jesus is the Commander of the Lord's Army. He is more than capable of going before us and fighting the battle for us.

Honestly, what is the fascination and fixation on gun use?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I read the comments in this thread. That's how I know.
What you want, here, is for agreement to your position. When you don't get it...well...we get posts like I am quoting.

It's obvious that people love their guns to the point of idolatry and fear government in spite of God ordaining government for your benefit.

There you go with your false accusations again.

I do not love my Gun, I love my family. I have weapons I used to help feed my family. and I have weapons I use as a deterant to protect my family.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Absolutely, got to be one of the most ridiculous questions asked on this board.

Like God asked peter to dispose of his sword on that fateful night..

some people only see what they want to see

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Did Peter ever pick up the sword again? What do we see in history?
Jesus is the Commander of the Lord's Army. He is more than capable of going before us and fighting the battle for us.

Honestly, what is the fascination and fixation on gun use?

did peter ever NOT pick up his sword again. You can't prove a negative where there is no record.

Look at the OT. God used his army many times

 

[atpollard]

Note that I have consistently stated that having a shotgun to kill game for eating is a positive use for a gun. It's only function is to kill. I don't see your scenario denying this fact.

Then allow me to clarify: THIS ...

I considered the purchase of a handgun for dealing with such encounters [specifically a gun chambered in .45 LC that could also fire a .410 shotgun shell giving me “birdshot” to deal with snakes and a lethal round for an aggressive ‘gator during mating season.]

... is a handgun "designed to kill people" (as you would say) ... like 'The Judge' by Taurus ... used to defend against dangerous animals by me (a function that does not involve killing people). Therefore "killing people" is NOT the only function of that handgun, is it?

LINK TO THE JUDGE

 

[AustinC]

did peter ever NOT pick up his sword again. You can't prove a negative where there is no record.

Look at the OT. God used his army many times

We do not know.
What we know is that none of the NT writers ever advocated for returning violence with physical defense.
2 Corinthians 11:24-31
Five times I received at the hands of the Jews the forty lashes less one. Three times I was beaten with rods. Once I was stoned. Three times I was shipwrecked; a night and a day I was adrift at sea; on frequent journeys, in danger from rivers, danger from robbers, danger from my own people, danger from Gentiles, danger in the city, danger in the wilderness, danger at sea, danger from false brothers; in toil and hardship, through many a sleepless night, in hunger and thirst, often without food, in cold and exposure. And, apart from other things, there is the daily pressure on me of my anxiety for all the churches. Who is weak, and I am not weak? Who is made to fall, and I am not indignant? If I must boast, I will boast of the things that show my weakness. The God and Father of the Lord Jesus, he who is blessed forever, knows that I am not lying.

We never see anyone relying on a weapon to save them from dangerous and wicked people. Why then would Christians, today, rely upon their weapons and their stockpile of materials to save them? In the Exodus, God provided the food such as manna for His people. They were told not to hoard it and of course, when they did it spoiled and became rancid.

My point is that the Bible doesn't support the behavior of paranoid Christians in this world. What is consistently stated when we face trials is for us to be in prayer. Prayer is given as the weapon of choice for the Christian. Prayer and God's Word. The Apostles all see their enemy as being spiritual powers and principalities.

 

[AustinC]

Then allow me to clarify: THIS ...

... is a handgun "designed to kill people" (as you would say) ... like 'The Judge' by Taurus.

LINK TO THE JUDGE

Perhaps you missed what I said.
I said that the gun is a tool to kill living beings created by God. I have stated that hunting is a viable use for a gun. Use a shotgun. If you are hired as a game warden, carry the gun provided to you by your government agency. If you're walking around on your own...pray God protects you.

 

[atpollard]

Perhaps you missed what I said.
I said that the gun is a tool to kill living beings created by God. I have stated that hunting is a viable use for a gun. Use a shotgun. If you are hired as a game warden, carry the gun provided to you by your government agency. If you're walking around on your own...pray God protects you.

Isn't that the argument FOR "home defense"?
(A God-given mandate to serve and protect those that God has entrusted to your care and protection as allowed by Law.)

 

[Eternally Grateful]

We do not know.
What we know is that none of the NT writers ever advocated for returning violence with physical defense.
2 Corinthians 11:24-31
Five times I received at the hands of the Jews the forty lashes less one. Three times I was beaten with rods. Once I was stoned. Three times I was shipwrecked; a night and a day I was adrift at sea; on frequent journeys, in danger from rivers, danger from robbers, danger from my own people, danger from Gentiles, danger in the city, danger in the wilderness, danger at sea, danger from false brothers; in toil and hardship, through many a sleepless night, in hunger and thirst, often without food, in cold and exposure. And, apart from other things, there is the daily pressure on me of my anxiety for all the churches. Who is weak, and I am not weak? Who is made to fall, and I am not indignant? If I must boast, I will boast of the things that show my weakness. The God and Father of the Lord Jesus, he who is blessed forever, knows that I am not lying.

We never see anyone relying on a weapon to save them from dangerous and wicked people. Why then would Christians, today, rely upon their weapons and their stockpile of materials to save them? In the Exodus, God provided the food such as manna for His people. They were told not to hoard it and of course, when they did it spoiled and became rancid.

My point is that the Bible doesn't support the behavior of paranoid Christians in this world. What is consistently stated when we face trials is for us to be in prayer. Prayer is given as the weapon of choice for the Christian. Prayer and God's Word. The Apostles all see their enemy as being spiritual powers and principalities.

its ok. Ifyour wife and daughter are being raped. we know you will not do anything to protect them. You will just let God handle it.

Thats good to know..

just news flash. I do not think God will be very happy with you not serving your wife and daughter

 

[just-want-peace]

Crabtownboy has obviously morphed into a new identity; same ole garbage & nonsense as of old!
Based on what he apparently(????) posts currently (I have him on “ignore”) he qualifies for the fate of CTB- - -!?!?
My BP has levied out since putting him on ignore; you ought to try it for sanity’s sake!?

 

[Bible Thumpin n Gun Totin]

Prime example yesterday of the need for rifles with 30 round mags:
Had a black bear trying to break through one of my pasture fences yesterday and get at one of my chicken flocks worth $5000. The chickens were raising cane over it. When I saw it trying to get to my livestock I charged at it with my tractor blew the horn and bellered at it to scare it. Usually that's enough to scare a black bear . However this time the bear wasn't afraid and just sort of slowly sauntered off 100ft away while looking at me. That ain't how black bears usually react to humans, and it got my hair standing up.

Went inside, grabbed my AK-47 in case he came back, took me all of 60 seconds. I left the house, walked around the corner of my detached garage where my daughter plays and was face to face with this same bear standing there 5ft to 10ft away. The bugger had the nads to run all the way back to where he had last seen me. He had no fear. And this time he STILL didn't run away, he started huffing at me and then he decided to take a step towards me so I lit him up with all 30 rounds out of my AK. 5ft to 10ft of space doesn't leave room for error. I doubt 10 rounds would've done it. He still ran 10ft before he dropped from his wounds.

So yes. We need rifles. We need 30 round mags (at least) and no, I won't be obeying any suburban and urban dingdongs trying to tell me what I do and don't need out here in the boonies.

 

[Salty]

Prime example yesterday of the need for rifles with 30 round mags:
Had a black bear trying to break through one of my pasture fences n and urban dingdongs trying to tell me what I do and don't need out here in the boonies. ...

That poor bear
Suppose it have been Yogi Bear or even Boo-boo

 

[Reynolds]

Prime example yesterday of the need for rifles with 30 round mags:
Had a black bear trying to break through one of my pasture fences yesterday and get at one of my chicken flocks worth $5000. The chickens were raising cane over it. When I saw it trying to get to my livestock I charged at it with my tractor blew the horn and bellered at it to scare it. Usually that's enough to scare a black bear . However this time the bear wasn't afraid and just sort of slowly sauntered off 100ft away while looking at me. That ain't how black bears usually react to humans, and it got my hair standing up.

Went inside, grabbed my AK-47 in case he came back, took me all of 60 seconds. I left the house, walked around the corner of my detached garage where my daughter plays and was face to face with this same bear standing there 5ft to 10ft away. The bugger had the nads to run all the way back to where he had last seen me. He had no fear. And this time he STILL didn't run away, he started huffing at me and then he decided to take a step towards me so I lit him up with all 30 rounds out of my AK. 5ft to 10ft of space doesn't leave room for error. I doubt 10 rounds would've done it. He still ran 10ft before he dropped from his wounds.

So yes. We need rifles. We need 30 round mags (at least) and no, I won't be obeying any suburban and urban dingdongs trying to tell me what I do and don't need out here in the boonies.

Urban Ding Dongs think they know it all. That was definitely odd behavior for a bear.

 

[Reynolds]

That poor bear
Suppose it have been Yogi Bear or even Boo-boo
View attachment 6339

Yogi was a thief. You fussing at me about "vandalism" and praising a thief.

 

[JesusFan]

Rarely, are guns used for self defense.
People may brandish or carry a gun because it feels like a little god is always with them to protect them, but rarely is it actually used for self defense.

God, our Father, however, promises to never leave us, nor forsake us. He promises to go before us. He reminds us that this earth is a temporary place of exile where we are ambassadors for His Kingdom. What do we need that little god for? Unless we are in law enforcement or the military, there is no reason to carry a gun for "self defense." And...as Salty shared in the first edition of this thread, nearly all gun carriers are poorly trained so that more harm is caused by their carrying than if they didn't carry.

If you legally hunt, then keep a shotgun and a rifle. Have them be single shot so you only shoot at game that you know you can hit and kill with that one shot.

Stop treating your guns as a god and an idol.

stop driving any vehicle, using any utinsels, as many have been hurt a killed by using those items!